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 Peter Kraemer Water Color
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Elizabethlewicki
Junior Member

56 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2017 :  01:54:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anybody know the difference with Peter Kraemer (Senior) 1823 - 1907 and Peter Kraemer (Junior) 1857 - 1936. The signatures appear to be very similar. I have purchased a watercolor signed by Peter Kraemer. Is this the father or the son? (see attached)


ATTACHMENTS:
Peter Kraemer 1 (480x640).jpg
Peter Kraemer 2 (640x480).jpg
Peter Kraemer 3 (480x640).jpg
Peter Kraemer 4 (480x640).jpg
Peter Kraemer 2 (640x480).jpg

Edited by - Elizabethlewicki on Jul 04 2017 18:55:37

Job
Junior Member

United Kingdom
68 Posts

Posted - Jul 05 2017 :  10:40:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is much better quality than your fisherman on glass, Guido, presuming it is actually a watercolour. Nicely framed too. But there does seem to be a lot of confusion between the two Peter Kraemer (father and son) artists. There are works by the same hand clearly being attributed to both. So some of those attributions have to be wrong.

If you check the biographies, though, it starts to make sense. Peter Kraemer, the elder (born Germany 1823 and died in New York 1907) moved to America when he was 25 and became known for paintings associated with the Civil War. Peter Kraemer, the son, however, although born in America, moved back to Germany to study art, specifically Munich, and then died in Dießen. The signature of your work is Munich and other similar works say Dießen. They're all the same hand, so they must be the son.

Nb....That chair seems to notably be a regular feature of the son's work too.


Edited by - Job on Jul 05 2017 10:49:14
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Elizabethlewicki
Junior Member

56 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2017 :  05:43:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Job
We meet again. thanks for your comments.I agree my watercolour (yes it is) is probably by the son .What I have found strange in researching him is that the signatures of him and his father seem to be identical ,I would have expected some difference in their signatures.Also it is strange that they rarely dated their works ,which would have helped .
I am not sure about your field of expertise . I will be posting some images of some of my portrait miniatures painted on ivory. most are unsigned . I hope you enjoy them.

The maybe mother and daughter i have are signed EM Burgess (Eliza Mary Burgess)1917.
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Job
Junior Member

United Kingdom
68 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2017 :  12:14:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have you actually looked at the signatures on the few definitely identifiable works by the father? It doesn't sound as if you have, because they're really not the same. There are just quite a lot of works by the son that have clearly been misattributed to the father, as per my previous reply.

And it isn't that strange or unusual that things aren't dated. It would be very convenient if everything was but nothing in life is that convenient and you can still usually tell roughly when something was painted. So one of the things to consider is whether those things apparently attributed to the father (and specifying Munchen) are actually early enough to have been painted before he went to America. And the answer to that question is "no". Another really big clue is that the father anglicised his name a bit and dropped the "e". But the son, who went back to live in Germany, reinstated it. So there is "Kramer" versus "Kraemer". And I never thought I'd write that seriously in a sentence that wasn't referring to the film. But there you have it.

The authorship question re some is not actually whether they're by father or son, but whether they're by the Peter Kraemer the son (1857-1936) or Peter Kraemer the probable grandson (1896-1972).

Edited by - Job on Jul 06 2017 13:58:10
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Elizabethlewicki
Junior Member

56 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2017 :  19:27:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought I did look at the signatures properly there were not many to look at ,I will have another look the style of the grandson seemed to be very different. many thanks for your input .as you said it seems mine is by the son and i agree people have mixed the father in with his works.
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