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 Help ID the artist: antique Belgian oil/monogram
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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2017 :  15:03:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I was hoping somebody can shed more light on this painting. Bought it a year ago from UK dealer this seems to be an antique oil done on artist board size 10 x 14 inches. Signed with the monogram in the bottom right corner which I can not decipher. I was told this was by Belgian artist .... but I am not so sure myself ..... What is this place/square? .... London??? Can someone recognize the artist or the monogram? See the images of newspaper remnants stuck to the back: it tells about Royal artist exhibition at Piccadilly .... Upper notes seem to have the year: 1838 or 1938 .? In one of the corners (on the back) there is embossed phrase: "Young, 137 Gowern St, WC" if I am seeing this correctly ...... Any idea what that is ....???

Any help will be much much appreciated.
Cyril.



ATTACHMENTS:
antique_7.JPG
antique_6.JPG
antique_5.JPG
antique_4.JPG
antique_3.JPG
antique_2.JPG
antique_1.JPG

Edited by - cyril on Sep 15 2017 15:12:00

Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1673 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2017 :  16:20:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A simple search on
Young, 137 Gowern St, WC
reveals that he was an artists' supplier:
http://www.npg.org.uk/research/programmes/directory-of-suppliers/y

Regards,
Vietato

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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2017 :  16:38:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vietano, Thank you very much! One mystery has been solved!

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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2017 :  17:00:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pardon me Vietato,

is it safe to assume that my artist was one of Young's clients (and an important artist, possibly?) or this could be a random purchase from any artist from that era (that website you mentioned suggests that such stamp was placed on art supply only from 1882 through 1904) .....
Thank you for your time.
Cyril.
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1673 Posts

Posted - Sep 16 2017 :  05:53:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think anybody could have bought that canvas board from Young.

The monogram could be RJ. There is a somewhat similar monogram here:
http://www.artistssignatures.com/sigsearch.php?page=0&query=RJ

Regards,
Vietato

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Job
Junior Member

United Kingdom
68 Posts

Posted - Sep 16 2017 :  07:30:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's Gower St, not Gowern St, Cyril, and that website (Vietato linked) does imply the company moved from no 137 to 131 in 1904, but common sense should inform that one can't know how long something was in stock before being sold and/or how long an artist may have had something hanging around before using it. But what that site does do is make a point of differentiating between the form of stamp used on a known 1906 painting and another of 1907, so there would seem to have been a different change of form as well, with yours carrying the latter one. So even if the painting wasn't pretty clearly early C20, rather than C19, that points to more likely post 1907 too.

And whoever bought the board wasn't a "client" (that gives the wrong connotation entirely), they were a customer buying their art materials from a shop located, to purpose, to predominantly supply the needs of The Slade Art School students. That doesn't mean that they didn't supply artist's generally, of course they did, but generally speaking (since boards are much cheaper) they were more used by the students and by young artists needing to keep costs down. More established artists would be much more likely to either buy the preprepared stretched canvasses or to make their own up to their preference.

And although the materials were obviously bought in London, I think that's Bruges, which is.the Belgian connection. But whether a Belgian artist or student or British artist visiting Bruges is unclear. And, actually, because of the newspaper bits etc, and because Bruges was such a popular subject with so many images available, it may not have actually been painted in Bruges at all.

It's a trifle thinly painted, I think, but I rather like it.

And I think that looks like an RJ (or JR) monogram too. Given the little upstroke on the right side as well, though, I wouldn't rule out that signifying another letter (like an "H", maybe), even as that might just be decoration to effect.

Edited by - Job on Sep 16 2017 08:51:03
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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Sep 16 2017 :  17:08:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you, Job, for detailed answer. So, this indeed can be Bruges ...?? Perhaps that UK dealer was right after all ..... The signature does seem similar to the sample in the 2nd link but I do not have a membership to that website to click it further to see what artists were using that ....

Thank you very much for solving most of the mysteries!
Cyril.
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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2017 :  11:22:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Job,

as I was researching on the location, I have picked up your tip about this being Bruges ....Do you think this is The Belfry of Bruges in the background ...? I wonder what known squares are located near Belfry to pinpoint this one based on the sculpture visible to the left and tall building to the right...?

Any ideas ...??

Thank you.
Cyril.
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mp.kunst
Junior Member

Netherlands
113 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2017 :  12:30:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This square is called "de grote markt" (big market) with the Belfort (Belfry) in the back.

https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-market-square-markt-bruges-belgium-square-belfry-tower-also-known-as-belfort-tower-located-as-well-as-provincial-court-statue-image29882568
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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2017 :  12:31:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great, Thank you very much!
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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Oct 06 2017 :  15:43:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I have been to the library and I browsed through 2 thick volumes of "European artists from 1800 through 1990 monogram". Found one RJ monogram that looked pretty close to mine (see image attached). Not 100 percent same, mine is more curlier and this one is straight and accurate ....

The artist's name is Rudolf Jordan (German, 1810-1887). The years indicate that theoretically he could have purchased artist board in 1882 from Percy Young art supply shop but I have looked at this paintings and they did not seem the same to me .... Wondering what is expert's opinion ....... In general, do you think my painting reminds you more of German school rather than English painter or not necessarily ....???? Could my painting be just a sketch for a bigger painting as it feels to be done in rushed technique a bit ...?

Thank you.
Cyril.



ATTACHMENTS:
antique_monogram.JPG
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cyril
Junior Member

USA
81 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  14:02:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I apologize for bumping this all the way up to the top but I was just wondering if any experts think this could be done by Rudolf Jordan (German painter) whose monogram looks somewhat close to the one on my painting (see Rudolf's monogram image added earlier) .....???

Thank you.
Cyril.
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1673 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2017 :  16:57:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I didn't look into your previous post because you were asking for an "expert's opinion", but since you are asking again: your painting has nothing in common with the works of Rudolf Jordan.

And I don't think it is a sketch - it's a painting style.

Regards,
Vietato



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