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P/K/S
Junior Member

USA
165 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2018 :  19:06:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
can anybody tell me what happen to this forum, it used to be really nice art forum but it turned in to... forum, is it only me feeling this way ?
does Admin control the contents of the posts ? if something posted here its not an art should not be removed ?

Edited by - P/K/S on Apr 02 2018 23:54:35

P/K/S
Junior Member

USA
165 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2018 :  19:13:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
for example...can I post here a toilet seat & ask how much I can sell it for ?
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shawnster
Average Member

USA
407 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2018 :  22:25:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Too broad brush paint this forum as crappy is barking up the wrong tree.Your opinion is only your opinion and nothing more.The help I get is invaluable and the different material that gets posted, becomes something that someone eles might be able too cross reference,no matter it's value too you .
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P/K/S
Junior Member

USA
165 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2018 :  22:55:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
completely missing my point shawnster, looks like there is only two or three good experts left on this forum, but even they are tired of answering questions like " is he known ? is he listed ? & how much" all Im saying is that while ago this forum was really alive, I dont see this now
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shawnster
Average Member

USA
407 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2018 :  00:50:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok ,point taken.Some of the experts are going through life changes and your bone too pick seems too be with one member and not this forum.

Edited by - shawnster on Apr 03 2018 00:55:55
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P/K/S
Junior Member

USA
165 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2018 :  09:50:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
good morning shawnster, this is exactly my point :)
dont you think one should be more selective with his "art items" posted on this forum ? after all this is a findartforum not findeverythingforum, please look at other respectful forums on internet, if item posted its not related to the topic of that forum you have a great chance it will be remove. With your opinion, 1950s picture of gentlemen (possibly passport or ID picture) is it an art ? & yet asking this forum to ID this men also who is the artist who took that picture ? with my opinion this is an insult to this forum & its members
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
736 Posts

Posted - Apr 04 2018 :  09:48:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is one thing the web cannot do: recognize quality. All the Bill Gates's and Zuckerbergs cannot weed out the undesirables. It must be done by hand and that hand is certainly absent here. It does not reply to questions either and does not mend program faults in the profile script.

I have once paid some short subscription for the quite impressive data on this site and found the account to be in a Vietnamese name. So this ship may be adrift, but some may still enjoy the trip.
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jhomejimbo
Senior Member

653 Posts

Posted - Apr 04 2018 :  13:20:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When an item is placed on the forum, we have the ability to ignore those post which seem to be erroneous or strictly based on monetary info.
Every time I post something on the forum, I am very conscious of the quality of the item. Quite often, I am hesitant to post things, because of the scrutiny of the "experts". I am, somewhat of an expert on certain types of art, only because I have a bit more knowledge than even some of the "experts". Only because of my knowledge, I might be able to help people with less information.
I, however, try not to make a poster feel stupid for posting a less artful piece. I have experienced quite a few know-it-all "art experts, who give advice about art, who, sometimes are guessing - it would be foolish to say they're wrong - you would be leaving yourself open to a non-winnable argument with them. It is better to move on and post something else.
If it weren't for the ametuer, we would have no posts. That's how we have learned.
I have had a connoisseur refer to one of my paintings - " if I saw it in a shop, I wouldn't give five dollars for it". The painting, now, is being enjoyed by thousands of people, in a major museum.
The "experts" must lighten up, understanding that postings are not done out of ignorance, just people who seek answers. I agree that people who go thrift-shopping, every day, should try to be more selective as to their every day postings.
Experts should also realize that value of art, to an ametuer collector is important to them.
If everyone was an expert, there would no be a "forum". Experts usually have an idea of art value, before they post, so as not to be ridiculed by other experts.
I have learn so much about art through the forum, and I've also learned the personalities of members.
A lot of "conneseurs" might have knowledge in their field of interest, but if they are narsisists, they will always be right - no contest.
The more quality art which is posted, the greater amount of experts come out of the woodwork.
Let's not lose this forum because of of our lack of quality posts. True value of art is so subjective, after all. Plus, truly rare art is truly rare.
When I started out as a collector, I was very naive and uninformed about quality. I am learning, though. By the time I die, I WILL KNOW IT ALL.
REGARDS TO YOU, AND ALL THE MEMBERS.
JIMMY N.
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angelo
Junior Member

Italy
121 Posts

Posted - Apr 06 2018 :  06:13:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beautiful post Jimmy , really.
I think this forum is great for 2 different aspects :
- art knowledge
- respect.
I have learnt many things reading the posts on this forum because there are people here with high art knowledge.
I'm not an expert and I'm using this forum to upgrade my art knowledge.
Anyway also the respect I find here it's important. If the forum was too aggressive or closed to new people , none would post new items and soon the forum would die.
I have left other art forums because there are few people that are named themselves "art expert" and they tell things not nice for newbies posts.
Summarizing , among all post there would be someone more "stupid" than others but it's enough to not answer them.

Angelo
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
736 Posts

Posted - Apr 06 2018 :  07:10:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The fact remains that this forum is technically outdated by ten years. It takes a lot of clicking and remembering to sort out what you want to read and what not. Especially for those usually on the answering side. Findartinfo will lose out if a similar forum were set up with high user ease, where every entry shows photos and query right on the first page like in auction catalogues. Entry titles should be numbered, marked as read/unread etc. These complaints are not new, but helas to no avail.
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1817 Posts

Posted - Apr 06 2018 :  10:34:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don’t see how this forum can continue much longer. It is paid for by subscribers to the FindArtInfo database.
“With this art appraisal tool you can value your fine art by comparing it with recent auction prices of similar pieces. FindArtInfo.com gives you the latest hammer prices on art from auction houses worldwide, plus valuable additional information.”

This is false advertising: the database has not been updated since August 2015. It cannot be long before the income from the database evaporates.

There are alternatives - but people have to begin to use them!

Art jobs - Artmarketspot
http://www.artmarketspot.com/index.php?option=com_jblance&view=project&layout=searchproject&Itemid=485

Art forum - Artmarketspot
http://www.artmarketspot.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=category&catid=3&Itemid=146

Ask Art - Bidtoart
https://ask.bidtoart.com/

Regards,
Vietato

____________________
I am webmaster on this: Art Talk - Denmark in words and pictures
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Apr 06 2018 :  14:58:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Vietato for mentioning my site, but I have to admit that at the moment it's not a very good site either :) . Due to inactivity there I stopped updating or maintaining it for over a year ago as well. I don't even know why I keep paying for the hosting and domain to be honest with you. I guess in this day and age of internet one man shows don't work anymore, no matter how much you are willing to help and improve art community. :) But I've always said: I would be happy a part of any joint efforts for a such causes whoever may lead them, always ready to dedicate some of my time and skills.
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Apr 06 2018 :  15:03:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ps.
I'm sure we all have great ideas on how this or any other art site/forum can be improved with modern IT features, but I doubt the owner here would be willing to listen and invest as this is rather unprofitable business. With a greater vision thought it could be turned in a profitable one, but it's rather hard convincing people in one's visions. :)
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1817 Posts

Posted - Apr 06 2018 :  16:46:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Too bad your site hasn't worked out, Merray!
I think the idea of validating eBay art seemed good, although it is not within my area of interest.

"Art Jobs" was also a good idea!

Maybe we could go to Ask Art at Bidtoart then. The site needs some tweaking, but I think it is very new.

Regards,
Vietato

____________________
I am webmaster on this: Art Talk - Denmark in words and pictures
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jhomejimbo
Senior Member

653 Posts

Posted - Apr 07 2018 :  00:10:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Merray and Vietato,
In my recent post, I am, of course, ignorant of the building of a 'forum'.
I know that the work involved is massive. Keeping it recent, and easily accessible, has to be a nightmare.
I am very appreciative to any forum which is able to attract knowledgable collectors and dealers.
There are many, like me, who will continue to be involved with your efforts, and, of course, wish you great success with any endeavors you have.
Your postings give every indication of your frustrations, but your efforts are not being ignored. Thanks for all you do.
Regards,
Jimmy N.
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Apr 07 2018 :  15:08:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will check the Bidtoart, I've never visited the site, thank you Vietato.
But as I've said it's a matter of people being really interested in building and taking this to the next level. Everything (with little bit of creativity) can be solved, improved and then more.
For example the issue initially raised up it this topic, what can be done is "thumbs up"/"thumbs down" buttons implemented (of course with one vote per IP) which would effectively bump up or down each topic. It took me a minute to come up with this idea, should I give it more thought I would come up with tons of greater measures. :)
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
736 Posts

Posted - Apr 07 2018 :  17:14:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Merray, you certainly made an effort and I cannot pinpoint what exactly your effort lacked. Nothing I could critisize. But we have seen a number of portals, forums and artsites emerge and go under and the impression is: those that thrive have either invested in strong marketing strategies or lean on institutional backing like museums etc.

Edited by - arb on Apr 08 2018 01:52:47
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angelo
Junior Member

Italy
121 Posts

Posted - Apr 08 2018 :  02:16:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I wrote in a previous post , I'm not an art expert but I've seen a lot of art sites.
I am a little art collector and sometimes I would pay to have certain informations about an artist signature , the best market where to sell an artwork , evaluations ot value at the moment of certain style artworks (futurism , expressionism , etc).
But the fact is that the sum required on several sites to have such informations in average are about some hundreds of euros , not too much money but enough too much for little art collector like me.
Sometimes I would need also an expertise about a certain artist , maybe even only the address of the right archive to contact.
What I think it would be an interesting idea it was to have a site thought for little collectors , in the meaning of "low cost fees" not every art collector could have the money of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs , but there are thousands of little art collectors like me. I think it could not be useless to make a little business plan about it.

Angelo

Edited by - angelo on Apr 08 2018 02:18:48
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
736 Posts

Posted - Apr 08 2018 :  04:53:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Angelo, are you familiar with www.artvalue.com? The small collectors I know are fully content with that free auction results site. They also use www.youvalue.com and the very usefull list at http://www.comanducci.it

Besides, paysites like Artprice do supply the first info free: the artists' names and sold works' titles. It oftentimes only takes some copy-pasting in google to find the particulars of the sale.
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Apr 08 2018 :  13:31:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes, Arb, you are right there was no "strong marketing strategies or lean on institutional backing" and that could be it. But I'm a full time art dealer and was only part time web developer. :) I have bills to pay and family to care for financial stability of. It's pretty hard to pull things like that along, and I'm not talking strictly financially in narrow sense, as invested time equals money as well at the end of the day.
As to Angelo's concern, I agree there obviously ways for anyone get the things done themselves, but at the same time what could be so obvious to us is not necessarily so for general public and what is easy and fast for us - not so for everyone else. And time as already said above - always equals money.
Taken that into consideration I had this idea of "Art Jobs" market, which would work just like freelance.com for web development, where public posts their jobs/questions and determines their budget (which could be as small as $10) than art experts can take a look and decide if it worth their time or not. And if it is something that takes me 2 minutes to solve - $10 why not? :)
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Apr 08 2018 :  18:57:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ps.
I will be honest with you: I used to spend a lot of time here trying to crack some questions down - hours at times... not anymore, 5-10 mins - the max on things that I think are worth attention.
At the same time like I said above if some lets say doctor, lawyer, programmer or whoever who's making $50-100+/hour posts here a question that would take him few hours to figure out even if only searching on the net involved, but you are able because of your experience of doing such things daily give the answer in 5 mins, I'm sure he will happy to pay you just $10-20. :)
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kungzi
Senior Member

Germany
859 Posts

Posted - Apr 09 2018 :  02:42:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi there,
haven´t been here for a long time, been answering questions on other paid sites. I used to read all the posts with enthusiam, but the layout of this forum is hard to work with.
There is a congress coming up in June: http://authenticationinart.org/congress-2018/
I just talked to Yue Han from Bidtoart, he is looking forward to having a busy forum.
Just to mention, the small landscape painting listed there is by Neogrady Laszlo
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1817 Posts

Posted - Apr 09 2018 :  16:48:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Which are the paid sites you have been answering questions at, kungzi?

Regards,
Vietato

____________________
I am webmaster on this: Art Talk - Denmark in words and pictures
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kungzi
Senior Member

Germany
859 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2018 :  01:36:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Vietato,
All there are. Some were shortlived unfortunately.
Bidtoart offers a 30 % discount on paid accounts for former users of this forum. Just mention it if you should sign up.
The forum itself is free of course.
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1817 Posts

Posted - Apr 19 2018 :  16:59:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also have a conversation with Yue Han (a nice woman, by the way) from BidtoArt, and I have agreed to be a moderator of the Ask Art forum there.

If you want to subscribe to the BidtoArt auction database you should enter the promotion code
BidtoArt007
(that is zero-zero-seven)
in order to get the 30 % discount.

The Ask Art forum at BidtoArt has many good features (including the like function as Merray suggested) and photos up front. It's time to move on!

Regards,
Vietato

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I am webmaster on this: Art Talk - Denmark in words and pictures
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aallan
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - Apr 21 2018 :  12:33:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Vietato, I will try the bidtoart.com
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Job
Junior Member

United Kingdom
123 Posts

Posted - Apr 22 2018 :  19:03:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by arb

Angelo, are you familiar with www.artvalue.com? The small collectors I know are fully content with that free auction results site. They also use www.youvalue.com and the very usefull list at http://www.comanducci.it

Besides, paysites like Artprice do supply the first info free: the artists' names and sold works' titles. It oftentimes only takes some copy-pasting in google to find the particulars of the sale.



I tried looking for Youvalue.com, which I hadn't tried before, but it doesn't seem to exist anymore. And I gave up with artvalue.com because you can't access anything worthwhile without validating registration through an email they're supposed to send. But one never actually gets an email from them (and nothing's diverted to "spam" either). If anyone knows how to get around that, it would be appreciated.

Do people not like the likes of Invaluable? I find it useful, even when not always subscribed. I'm a bit surprised they don't have a forum, actually.

Edited by - Job on Apr 22 2018 19:04:33
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1817 Posts

Posted - Apr 24 2018 :  13:18:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I registered with artvalue.com many years ago without problems. I guess the validation process is automatic, so I would suggest that you try with another e-mail address.

I have heard (in other connections) about registration problems with certain e-mail domains for strange reasons.

Thanks for pointing out Invaluable.com as a resource. I have used Live Auctioneers to search for many items shown on this forum, but I had not thought of Invaluable for that purpose.

Regards,
Vietato

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Job
Junior Member

United Kingdom
123 Posts

Posted - Apr 25 2018 :  17:14:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've assumed the validation process is automatic too, and have tried alternative email addresses, but to no avail.

And Invaluable is really good! It's the only results platform that I think is actually worth subscribing to. It has a huge database and some results are available for want just of registering (recent prices generally but some older ones too and I've never quite worked out what makes the difference). But even where you have to have subscribed to see results, you still get to see the auction house and can chase many individual results that way if you need to. .
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Vietato
Gold Member

Denmark
1817 Posts

Posted - Apr 26 2018 :  13:44:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you sign up with bidtoart.com you get a month of free access to all auction details, so it's worth a try.

I hope more people will find the forum over there.

Regards,
Vietato

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cathammer
New Member

USA
21 Posts

Posted - May 02 2018 :  22:52:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vietato

I also have a conversation with Yue Han (a nice woman, by the way) from BidtoArt, and I have agreed to be a moderator of the Ask Art forum there.




Well, If you're going to be there, Vietato, I suppose I'll have to start checking it out.
I don't have an art background or expertise, but enjoy reading the inquiries and answers provided by others, and you've been particularly helpful to many.

See you at BidtoArt/Ask Art forum!

This site (Findartinfo) is rather clunky relative to some these days, but there are still helpful folks here, too.

Cheers,
William L.

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maxfrost
Junior Member

60 Posts

Posted - Jun 17 2018 :  11:40:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's a high level of pretentiousness and arrogance here that you see widely throughout the art world. There is what I'd consider thrift store art often posted but I don't feel the need to berate someone about it or make them feel bad and stupid as lots of these posts do. I've received some amazing detailed information which I'm grateful for but also some wildly inaccurate info or wrong assumptions as well though. All too often it feels like you're put on trial if you even dare inquire about art here. For that reason I just sort of cringe even considering posting something so I'd rather just lurk occasionally but I should try more than I do.

Edited by - maxfrost on Jun 17 2018 15:23:20
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Job
Junior Member

United Kingdom
123 Posts

Posted - Jun 17 2018 :  17:50:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"There's a high level of pretentiousness and arrogance here that you see widely throughout the art world".

I don't know what your background is, but I'm curious re what exactly it is that you consider to be so dreadfully arrogant here, especially when what you're essentially taking about is people giving of their time and experience for no reward. Since there's apparently such a "high level" of it, there must be some examples you can quote. I'd really like to know what it is that you think is so offensive.

I know I'm probably guilty of seeming quite arrogant on occasion, if for no other reason than my language is quite clipped. But I barely ever post anything and when I do, it's less from an academic standpoint than it is from experience in the trade and of restoration and from just having a good "eye" (even if I say so myself). I only started replying at all after asking questions myself, just in case, and then thinking I should contribute something in return because there are too few who can reply sensibly when I could sometimes. I could/would have posted more, had I not been quickly put off by running into ridiculous resentment for not saying what someone wanted to hear. So just for the record, I would point out the counter position, in that for people who do have some idea of what they're doing, it is actually quite soul destroying to see evinced how appallingly inadequate most people are with regard to anything to do with art. But I, personally, still don't intend to "berate" people. And if what you're talking about is anything to do with me, I would like to know. There's nothing very dreadful here in my opinion, though, so examples of the multiplicity of offending posts would be good.


Edited by - Job on Jun 17 2018 19:35:01
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
736 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2018 :  12:17:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is the same supposed arrogance many patients will say of a medical specialist they want to accept their misconceptions. The doctor cannot embark on endless discussions with total laymen and will eventually enforce his judgment by stating a final opinion. That is no pretence, no arrogance, it is what the medical man has to offer and that must do. He does not pretend to know, he knows. And the patient does not. He can have his cake and eat it. Or not.

There is a substantial amount of artistic and art historical knowledge available on this forum. Those that supply it want nothing in return but for their many years of learning and experience to be usefull. If that gratis knowledge does not agree with an applicants's wishfull thinking, he is free to set it aside. But as one cannot at will tell the doctor to transfer decades of experience to a stubborn patient or to change his diagnosis, one must at some point make do with the answers here. If you have a problem with authority, then don't consult those that you cede it to.
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Jun 20 2018 :  10:19:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We were talking about this in different topics for years now with little progress...
Hey guys, just a thought... maybe we should try at least creating an Art Group on Facebook? :)
It could be useful in many ways including some greater exposure and hopefully some influence on art market in broader circles, starting with sharing and educating the public about the fakes on the market like it's done in the other topic.
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Jun 20 2018 :  10:22:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ps.
FB has many great tools, so those of us who don't like each other for example can block or unfriend (whatever it's called) not to see particular person's posts. :)))
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
736 Posts

Posted - Jun 21 2018 :  07:04:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good idea, Merray! Layout-wise FB is a lot better than this site. And right: I can block the vilains that keep wasting helpful people's time with scuffed, blurred, fuzzy photos... I'm in!
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Merray
Gold Member

Canada
1379 Posts

Posted - Jun 21 2018 :  09:54:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cool-minded and reasonable moderator there needed so I'm waiting for Vietato's response. :)
ps.
If the community here in general rejects the idea, deciding to remain art critics anonymous club... oh well, at the very least I would be really happy to befriend you on FB Arb, something good will eventually come out our friendship. :)
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