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kaiser
Average Member

220 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  04:41:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello everybody!

I can not read the signature. I would be grateful for the help.

Thank you all!



ATTACHMENTS:
0fcEWd5.jpeg
gABWoha.jpeg
vZ3Fz7I.jpeg

arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
755 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:08:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The signature might read GvHaniel: Gerhard von Haniel, fully: Friedrich Paul Georg Wilhelm von Haniel, alias Haniel-Niethammer *1888 in Saarburg, ElsaŖ-Lothringen; Ü 1955 in Munich

The image is the Grote Kerk asa Onze-Lieve-Vrouwekerk in Dordrecht (NL)
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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:12:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I canít either due to the picture not really that great! :(
Is it pen? Like making an indentation on the paper? Would be great if you could perhaps shine a flash light on it and snap some shots from different angles giving different perspectives. This, at least for me, gives me different ideas as to what to explore.
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kaiser
Average Member

220 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:21:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear Arb many thanks!!! Your knowledge without limits !!!
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kaiser
Average Member

220 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:27:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear wagnermia
Thanks for participating! I tried to do as you wanted. That's better?



ATTACHMENTS:
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a1vHl2I.jpeg
gABWoha.jpeg
cTMTxHd.jpeg
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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:54:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A bit :) the last 2 pics tha is. if I had in hand though... Iíd get that solved!! (signatures... itís my thing)
but for now, I will say that with 99% certainty, the last letter is a D.
so last name, my opinion as of now, is HAxxID

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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  09:58:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PS FYI up super close you can see it is a wide signed D (the crook is very apparented and with hand tracing as well fits perfectly)
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kaiser
Average Member

220 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  12:50:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear wagnermia More options ...


ATTACHMENTS:
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xjre1kI.jpeg
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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  14:47:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks. Tomorrow will remove some layers (colors etc) via computer to see different variations and let you know if I can determine anything. When on paper, cardboard etc and pressed down as yours appears this can show pressure points or starts/stops that are unique to certain letter formations - may be helpful. Perhaps, perhaps not. But we will see.
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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 11 2019 :  15:15:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
also, you have any idea on age, date created? Whatís the back of it look like/mounting?
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kaiser
Average Member

220 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  13:37:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear wagnermia

Thank you for your interest in the topic. Behind it is sealed with paper, no inscriptions. Age? I have no idea.
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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  14:10:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kaiser

Dear wagnermia

Thank you for your interest in the topic. Behind it is sealed with paper, no inscriptions. Age? I have no idea.

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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  14:17:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wagnermia

quote:
Originally posted by kaiser

Dear wagnermia

Thank you for your interest in the topic. Behind it is sealed with paper, no inscriptions. Age? I have no idea.





I believe the artist of your watercolor is Otto Hamel - German 1866-1950 (or Hammel as found listed a few times) Appears a very versatile painter, not dedicated to one medium or style including his signature.
He is listed in the main findart database with many images/pieces along with signatures although the ones there would not have help us. If yours was painted in 1883 (which I do think indicates) he would have been very young... so perhaps exploring his style (which apparently he did for the rest of his life) Attached is a montage that I do hope can be seen clearly showing your piece along w 2 of his watercolors (he did do many vs oils) Also is the signature on your piece w manipulations against a confirmed long hand signature of his indicated in red (also manipulated to pull out consistencies) Regardless of any differences, one constant remaining across all long hand signatures I could come across is the O with his first name. It always was a match. So, this is my non-expert, unqualified opinion regarding the artist of your lovely watercolor. Thank you for allowing me to participate. I truly enjoyed it :) M.



ATTACHMENTS:
17142870-1D03-4253-A173-CBFA3B61B6B5.jpeg
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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  14:38:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wagnermia

quote:
Originally posted by wagnermia

quote:
Originally posted by kaiser

Dear wagnermia

Thank you for your interest in the topic. Behind it is sealed with paper, no inscriptions. Age? I have no idea.





I believe the artist of your watercolor is Otto Hamel - German 1866-1950 (or Hammel as found listed a few times) Appears a very versatile painter, not dedicated to one medium or style including his signature.
He is listed in the main findart database with many images/pieces along with signatures although the ones there would not have help us. If yours was painted in 1883 (which I do think indicates) he would have been very young... so perhaps exploring his style (which apparently he did for the rest of his life) Attached is a montage that I do hope can be seen clearly showing your piece along w 2 of his watercolors (he did do many vs oils) Also is the signature on your piece w manipulations against a confirmed long hand signature of his indicated in red (also manipulated to pull out consistencies) Regardless of any differences, one constant remaining across all long hand signatures I could come across is the O with his first name. It always was a match. So, this is my non-expert, unqualified opinion regarding the artist of your lovely watercolor. Thank you for allowing me to participate. I truly enjoyed it :) M.



PS additional image, although not great quality, shows sample wide range signature styles of Ďpresumedí artist.



ATTACHMENTS:
26D1826C-58CE-4717-9906-CB6B866B3A7E.jpeg
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kaiser
Average Member

220 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  14:39:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear wagnermia
Thank ! I enjoy your research! This is great!

By the way, just look at the water. On all watercolors, it is the same!
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wagnermia
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  14:51:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kaiser

Dear wagnermia
Thank ! I enjoy your research! This is great!

By the way, just look at the water. On all watercolors, it is the same!



Yes, I canít take all the credit though. If it were not for Arb knowing what the painting was OF - perhaps would not have happened so quickly. You stop focusing on the artist and more so the painting ie watercolors of the Grote Kerk etc to give different path. Then pray the paths all link up somewhere. This time they did. Not always. I used to research by trade so my mind is wired differently than most. Anyhow, enjoy learning more about him. Let me know if anything interesting. Thanks again.
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kaiser
Average Member

220 Posts

Posted - Mar 12 2019 :  15:21:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes! Glory to Arb and wagnermia !!!
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
755 Posts

Posted - Mar 13 2019 :  03:27:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's Hamel, the signature is totally convincing.
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arb
Senior Member

Netherlands
755 Posts

Posted - Mar 13 2019 :  03:36:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
https://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/22634027-otto-hamel-1866-1950-riviergezicht-dordrecht-ca-1900
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