Merray
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14 years ago
Thank you for the encouraging words guys!

I think it could show a bit better should the browned varnish get removed but I can’t do that as I have neither proper solutions nor experience of doing that, I do well only with cleaning unvarnished paintings.

As to the where I get them……..well, regretfully there is no magic place, so I have to go anywhere I could: local auctions, estate sales, antic shops, etc. I also had a few good buys on eBay. As to the consistency it’s not really the case with me, I post here probably just one painting in about every 50 or even more that I buy/sell. So I post here only those that I think might be worth attention of respectful people of this forum but keeping all of the [censored] ones hidden in my basement. ;o)

saintluc
14 years ago
What a piece of painting!

I immediately felt the same emotion than in front of the Jonah of Albert Pinkham Ryder. I don´t say it is by him but see some paintings as the ´´under a cloud´´ (Met), ´´siver moon´´ or ´´The lovers boat (Smithsonian).

So I would say : American expert urgently! Because if it is not Ryder, it´s the level.

http://americanart.si.edu/images/2005/2005.14_1a.jpg 
saintluc
14 years ago
Dynamism? Chad! We almost have salt water drops on the face.
Impasto
14 years ago
Wow, Merray, you are nothing if not consistent at posting marvelous works of art.


It´s certainly in the same ilk, but this doesn´t quite have the dynamism you find with Ryder´s brilliant oils. I agree, however, that it´s quite lovely and has a great deal of grace.

I must ask, where do you find your beautiful pieces?





-Chad W.

http://cwysart.etsy.com 
Impasto
14 years ago
Haha! ´´Almost´´ being the operative word. ;)

It´s certainly an exquisite painting, but Ryder´s work takes you beyond the sea and into a dream sequence. Honestly, this invokes J M W Turner more to my eyes. Ryder was all about complimentary tones and compartments, this is more awash with monotones, and misty.



-Chad W.

http://cwysart.etsy.com 
saintluc
Merray
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14 years ago
Well, ti seems I´ve spotted some sort of a signature on the painting. I took quiet few shots to get the best one so you could see what I see what isn´t easy here, but anyhow what it looks like to me is intergrown letters AMP then a space and cK or sK.

Take a look:
kungzi
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14 years ago
I get the impression it reads AM Fisk,

regards

kungzi
Merray
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14 years ago
OK, so I guess I better follow the innitial advise from saintluc to get ´´American expert urgently´´.

The question now is where do I find one of such?
Merray
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14 years ago
Thank you for the suggestion kunzi! I tried that one as well beside all other possible combinations with no success. To the point when I’m even questioning the legitimacy of that signature in general as obviously it looks like it was done after the paint was dry, the question is how long after? I think I should finally buy myself a UV lamp to have it as a first step of looking at signatures.BTW anyone got a suggestion where should I buy one and what kind? Sorry for off-topic. ;o)
Vietato
14 years ago
http://www.pw-powerstation.de/product_info.php/info/p161_12-LED-UV-3xAAA-Flashlight.html 


I guess that´s the one kungzi bought. I have the Inova X5 which is referred to, but this seems better, because of the 12 LEDs instead of 5. It will light up a larger area with more intensity. But the X5 is very easy to carry around - which reminds me I should do so, even if it´s very seldom called upon [8D]

Vietato

____________________

e-store: Vietato´s Gallery 
kungzi
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14 years ago
Hi Merray,

I was allways trying to get one of those powerful shown in those american police series. Well,not available in germany. Now I got one at www.pw-powerstation.de. LED, light weight, small and powerful enough for checking paintings.

regards

kungzi
Merray
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14 years ago
Thank you again kungzi! So the main criteria would be certain level of power?
Merray
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14 years ago
Thank you Vietato.
Merray
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14 years ago
Vietato, is this the same one or I´m missing something?


eBay Item number: 250300860075
Martha Walden
14 years ago
There´s an American artist Harry T. Fisk. But maybe you already know that...
Martha Walden
14 years ago
If you thought the ending was ´´ck´´ - there is also an artist Claude Buck whose work is darker and more monotone.
muesli
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14 years ago
Hi Merray, I have tried some changes to color, contrast, etc. and this is the best I could make of it (using iPhoto). What I can read is M (e) s K. Perhaps this can help a little bit further ? Regards, Raf.
kungzi
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14 years ago
Hi Merray,

that´s about the same, it´ll do the same job. It is sufficient power for outdoor hunting in the morning..

regards

kungzi
Merray
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14 years ago
Thank you again guys!
Merray
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14 years ago
Vietato, it´s really hard to see (no wonder I didn´t see it for 2 weeks I had the painting) but it´s even harder catch it well with a camera I do have pics from different angles but the one I posted shows it the best. I will try going through the pictures again to see if there is any other that would show more and will post them.
Merray
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14 years ago
Here are few more pics:
Merray
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14 years ago
Thank you Raf!

I´ve played with the pic´s in photoshop a lot as well but couldn´t come up with any conclusive idea.
Merray
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14 years ago
Yes. Martha, I checked Harry Fisk but I think stylistically its too far from his works and also I would think this was painted rather sometime close to his date of birth.

But thank you for looking into it in any case.
Merray
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14 years ago
Doesn´t really look like it could be by Claude Buck either.
Merray
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14 years ago
So far after looking into a numerous possibilities the closest by impression remain works by Albert Pinkham Ryder and it’s not only the subject and stylistic similarity but I’ve looked at images of dozens of his works so even the technique and the way the paint lays on the surface is extremely similar to this painting. But should Chad be right in the point that it’s missing some high grade components of APR I would rather think in such case that someone was trying to imitate Ryder but fell just a bit short.
Merray
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14 years ago
Here is a couple: one is ´´Ryder´´ the other is just ´´R´´

Merray
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Merray
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14 years ago
There are three works of his here that you can zoom-in to see the sig´s and brushwork texture as well.

http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=Ryder%20Albert&coll_has_images=1 
Vietato
14 years ago
Hello Merray,

kungzi will be the one to answer that, but all the specifications match, and the one on the German site was also a ´´no name´´ flashlight.



I would buy it - it´s very cheap indeed.



Regards,

Vietato



____________________

e-store: Vietato´s Gallery 
Vietato
14 years ago
Merray,



I have looked at this signature many times, and tried many different settings on the photo, in the hope to see something else!

(I´ll bet saintluc has too!)

Couldn´t you take some more photos, from slightly different angles?



Regards,

Vietato



____________________

e-store: Vietato´s Gallery 
Vietato
14 years ago
Could someone maybe post some of Pinkham Ryder´s signatures?

I would very much like to see them.

In this signature we have A and perhaps not an M, but the top of the A going directly into P. And the last K could be and R, the same height as the other capital letters.

And the small letters could be numbers, strangely placed, but let´s look at all possibilities.



Regards,

Vietato



____________________

e-store: Vietato´s Gallery 
dilly
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14 years ago
If that cloud weren´t there -THE cloud against the sky. Then my eye would follow the line of the more muted cloud, hit the shading as it sweeps left, follow along, reach the jutting cliff, back to the boats, and so on - the cloud interrupts that.



It´s not interesting enough to warrant it´s intrusion on the flow of the composition. Just something wrong...
dilly
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14 years ago
MMM, I have problems with the cloud.
bluemlein
14 years ago
frank m toth



what the hey nonnie nonnie are you talking about!???
Merray
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14 years ago
Hi Frank and thank you for the comments. Althought I just have to admit I don´t see there anything you wrote about, sorry but I guess my eyes are just not good enough. Perhaps you could cut out some elements you are talking about?
5583
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14 years ago
Hello Merray.... Attached is your original image lightened, sharpened and focussed somewhat. It shows a different perspective on the (very probable signature) on the lower right, possible initials in the lower center, and a probable date all in the same handwriting.The haze on the image actually has some finger-formed letters but I didn´t try to interprete them. The lightened image shows a lot of activity from left edge to the right edge of the painting. Boats everywhere engaged in a

rescue/salvage scene. Beginning at the center a small boat poised...It appears to hold the letters J and F, possibly J, H, and F in some order. At the right are the letters that the forum is already dissecting, probably the last name. Some letters morph, but sometimes I see F O R E S T, sometimes not. (What is interesting is the dog beneath the letters looking at a rescue scene just to his front left where it appears that a crouched figure is poised to pull a figure, out of arm´s reach, from the water. Behind the dog and cut off below the shoulder blades are two or three figures whose garb (if not rain gear and considering the boats) may hint at the locality depicted by the painting.) The nose of the dog, left ear, the back, and tail at the horizontal, can be seen in your

post of the closeup of the signature.



The date, fairly centered but obscured by darker strokes on the rock face upper right,also morphs, most times it appears 1915 to me. Boats at the right poised to....rescue?....salvage?... A busy foreground everywhere. Debris dancing in the water.... A true impression of a moment in time with everything about to change.....



There is another place where a date maybe... to the left of the right side signature but before the center. The head of the dog below the writing really caught my attention .....but that´s another thread.......... I hope this helps... Frank
5583
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14 years ago
Sorry. heres the image...frank
5583
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14 years ago
Hi Merray.....

two images:

First is from your picture unaltered showing the two boats for reference.

Second is a poor guide to help see the little boat. My drawing shows only the shape of the boat,stern toward the viewer and bow pointed forward, a bit left, man at the left of boat and the letters...J,F and maybe H. I exaggerated the size of the letters but not by much. We are having strong weather event here. I will do some more ´´guide drawing´´in the morning. I want to shut the pc down....lightning and hail now....



All my comments are based on the lightened image I sent you. One error in what I wrote previously is to say ´´more boats on the right´´.They are on the left and considerably bigger and closer to the viewer(us) who are on a rise looking down or out to the water. I´m not convinced yet that it is an ocean. I see other things ........ frank....

bluemlein
14 years ago
merray i have taken the liberty of fiddling with the little slice, so that it is a bit bigger than 8 kb, and rendered in negative which sometimes can help one see things more clearly.



what do you see?



i see a boat. fini.
Merray
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14 years ago
Hi Chad! Howdy? SHould we aim at 80+ to see if a 3rd page will occur?
Martha Walden
14 years ago
fruitus cakus
Impasto
14 years ago
So 40 is the magic number to send us to the 2nd page, eh?



Congratz on your huge thread, Merray! Biggest one I´ve seen here. ;)







-Chad W.

http://cwysart.etsy.com 
Merray
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14 years ago
Yes, that´s pretty much all I see.
Merray
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14 years ago
Anita, I think I tried all possible manipulations with the image in Photoshop and that´s as much as I can see.
5583
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14 years ago
Hello

Here is a lightened version of the cut I was asked for. Looking at it with even 150% magnification seems ok. Divide the picture into quadrants horizontally and look at the bottom one for what I see as a little boat very unlike the one in the top half. What I think is that ´´ J and F ´´ seem the most defined entities in the bottom quadrant. For a long time I saw them simply as probable letters brushed onto waves at the bottom edge of the painting. Then it changed.....



What do you see in the bottom quadrant? Waves? ??

5583
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14 years ago
I guess I am not surprised no one else came in on this topic. Well, to move the discussion I will show you two arab faces from the four or five faces that can be seen just in Merray´s MacroMode image post of the ´´signature´´ candidate. You have to change the scale factor you have in your head to see what´s on the ground. Clearly elements were painted under magnification. You should be able to find the first arab , a right profile in flowing robes seated with what appears to be a control or sundial to his left. The second arab is forward of the first and is ...... The two cuts I post now are from the bottom left corner of Merray´s signature post. If you study the signature post image you will learn a lot about the truth of this painting.



If you agree now that there are figures on the ground, look at merray´s original post of the whole painting without the frame to see the six or eight other figures, including as I recall one or two shepherd crooks. They are much easier to see than the two cuts I posted.They appear below the area covered by his Macromode post and are moving into the picture frame from the lower right edge.



If you got this deep into the painting then you will see that the small boat (can hold 25 people easily) is a flat bottomed, shallow draft boat. Entities (not sure if all people or includes sheep) are actually being boarded or unboarded. Pylons are visible to the rear of the boat. The boat is docked on its right side.