pfbnantes
9 years ago
who cares !!! they use fake dollars ( printed by billions everyday by the federal reserve )
to buy fake artworks ....normal in a bankrupt country [:D]
pfb
eytan
  • eytan
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9 years ago
Actually I care and appreciate a lot your input, Vietato.

Since I work hard for my fake dollars, I prefer not to spend them on fake art. The French used to be very strong in clear logical thinking.







Eytan
Merray
  • Merray
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9 years ago
The problem is that most of those sites are run by ´´technicians´´ - people who are professionals in web-developing and/or e-commerce, but not much into Fine Art. Even eBay with thousands employees, I don´t think, has any art experts and therefore they ´´don´t police their auctions´´. They rather act on other peoples complains and very often would ´´act´´ on good listings who were just blackmailed rather than on those that actually are scams, but didn´t get any complains.
For a honest professional art seller it´s rather uncomfortable (to say the least) to work at such marketplace, so that was one of the main reasons for me to start building own site. The idea was to build a ´´democratic´´ marketplace where where listings are policed by the art community. With a control mechanism of something like a voting system: a listing would get automatically removed after receiving 10 ´´down votes´´ from members with an established feedback/reputation.
But it turns out so far to be somewhat too ambitious project to complete single-handedly. :(

www.artmarketspot.com 
nyart
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9 years ago
ZenZen
  • ZenZen
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9 years ago
Vietato, this is very interetsing and glad you shared your findings with us, looks like liveauctioneers is also turning into ebay!



It would be interetsing if you sent what you found to the Museum of Modern Art, New York and also Fundación Joan Miró woudl they be able to take further action.



This is nothing other than crime with people making a LOT of money through art forgeries.



Zenzen
Vietato
  • Vietato
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9 years ago
I have written today to MoMA - but isn´t this a case for FBI?

Here Poliakoff again:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/search?q=serge+poliakoff&hasimage=true&by_date=2015-06-28T05%3A38%3A13.542Z 
The same MoMa labels in two different auctions, one in Iowa, one in Oklahoma:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/38377350_composition-pastel-drawing-on-paper-serge-poliakoff 

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/38348700_composition-pastel-on-paper-serge-poliakoff 

Actually I tried contacting the FBI, but the contact form won´t accept my ZIP number!

Regards,
Vietato


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Merray
  • Merray
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9 years ago
I think Billy has a right zip code! ...and he always wanted to be helpful to the art community. ;)

ps.

On the serious note: thank you Vietato for doing this! In one way or the other it would benefit all of us.



www.artmarketspot.com 
arb
  • arb
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9 years ago
Apparently at the end of the day it is almost impossible to maintain respectability as an art sales website. When I first tried to post an ad on artprice some ten years ago, they insisted on having my item vetted, documented and certified. Now there is hardly an authentic piece of art to be had at artprice ads. Fakes galore.



Important thread, thanx Vietato.
arb
  • arb
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9 years ago
Our national falsifier Geert-Jan Jansen, who for a decade flooded the auction houses with hundreds of fake Appels, Miros, Picassos etc., now leads a comfortable life selling his originals ´´in the style of´´ at his castle and in tv-interview defyingly states that compared to banking, the art world is an innocent line of business [8D]

http://geertjanjansen.nl/ 

Forgery is somehow either seen as a gentleman´s crime or as Robinhoodery, stealing from the rich giving to the poor. Nonsense, of course. But then again: be honest, is it smart to buy a Poliakoff from an unknown source? I could not think of any professional that would, be it academic, auctioneer, dealer or connaisseur. And I could no think of an artist easier to forge either.
eytan
  • eytan
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9 years ago
Amazing (Geert-Jan Jansen). He may be right about the banks, though...

How about some of you experts providing a service, where people who are

thinking of buying art submit the URL of the painting they are interested in

buying, to hear an honest opinion? I have used this forum a few times in this

way and probably saved quite a lot of money and would be willing to pay for

such a service.













Eytan
arb
  • arb
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9 years ago
Speaking of certificates: when this guy Jansen was arrested, one of the rooms in his French castle contained 40 typewriters from different periods, which he used to write “old” certificates.



As for older work on paper: state-of-the-art copying machines will swallow an 18th century piece of paper just as easily as a modern A4 and will xerox any image on it at the falsifyer´s will. Old sheets of paper are easy to come by. Archives are full of them.
Merray
  • Merray
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9 years ago
I never got the point with the ´´certificates of authenticity´´ - they are so much easier to fake than a painting. Also not getting the point of COA´s issued by the same galleries selling the painting. It´s like you wouldn´t trust them, but you would trust their COA... Really? o_O
For me personally when I see a listing with ´´COA included´´ it´s rather a warning point - to look closer: what are they arguing with it against. :)
A good painting speaks for itself much louder than any COA. ...and if it doesn´t ´´speak to me´´ - no CEO would make me buying it.

www.artmarketspot.com 
Vietato
  • Vietato
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8 years ago
I have found another distributor of fakes on LiveAuctioneers: A “Walnut House” located in a mall in Parana, Brazil. They don’t have a web address it seems and only show up through LiveAuctioneers:

https://www.google.dk/search?q=walnut+house,+Rua+Carlos+de+Carvalho+655,+Loja+11,+Parana,+80430-180,+Brazil&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=CJG0VaOyI8z3Uob6qqAK 



On July 18, 2015, they offered 37 lots, 10 were sold:

https://atlcontent.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/74303_basquiat-ensor-hirst-and-others/?pagenum=2&rows=20 



Among the unsold an “Ensor” starting at 900 $, estimate 2-10,000 $:

https://atlcontent.liveauctioneers.com/item/39129092_james-ensor-paint-on-cardboard 



You’ll have a second chance on August 1, now starting at 1800 $ with an estimate of 10-25,000 $!

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/39487396_james-ensor-oil-on-cardboard 



I wrote today to Xavier Tricot about the inclusion in his next catalogue raisonnée of Ensor’s works, and he replied:

´´Thank you for sending this confusing news!

Of course, this work is a fake and will not be included in my catalogue raisonné!

I have never seen this work before.

Best regards,

xavier tricot´´



Regards,

Vietato



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arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
Thank you Vietato, for this site also illustrates that the deception oleographies pose is not just some scare I made up. It gives our readers a good opportunity to learn to recognize an oleo:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/39392474_european-school-music-class-xix 

On one of the detail photos, try and look through the varnish and observe that the details of the image (like the lady´s hand) should lead to a different surface of the varnish. Where the paint is raised, the varnish ought to show the same and vice versa. But is doesn´t, the pattern in the varnish does not correspond with the image as it would on a real painting. In fact, such delicately painted artwork would never lead to such a rough accentuated layer of varnish at all, it would be smooth and even. You may also notice that no brushstrokes are visible and that the colour nuances are those of a photograph rather than of oil paint. For this is indeed a photo, a photolithograph to be precise, done up with a thick layer of varnish and glued on a canvas and then on a panel. And the end product is called an oleograph, oleography or oleo.
pfbnantes
8 years ago
when you see the rejected paintings of van gogh collected and fully documented by expert benoit landais you can imagine how many fakes of other masters are in museums or private collections or sold by christies sotheby´s live auctioneers or ebay !

http://vincentsite.com/en/rejet/ 
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
We may well be in for more impressive changes in the art market, which will affect not only the world-wide availability but also the attractiveness to fake and falsify more than ever before.



Smaller auction houses everywhere, the ones without qualified experts, are benefitting from the success the new collective catalogue-portals like Lot-tissimo Bidsquare, UKAuctioneers etc enjoy. We suddenly see small firms prosper by specialising in a niche. Whereever they are, clients will find them and have the acquisitions sent. The Dutch market for Indonesian pre-war painting has been fully usurped by an auctioneer in the not exactly centrally located town of Middelburg. And if an important piece of Chinese porcelain pops up unrecognized in a small town catalogue, it will be spotted by experts in Beijing. They will bid by phone or send a man. This new chance to surf the global market in the darkest corners is a great opportunity for the forgers guild, but moreover for those who excell in upgrading a mediocre work to a masterpiece. Liveauctioneers, Catawiki, Auctionata and the like are far less vetted and scrutinized with professional expertise than the established blue chip auction houses. I for one have great difficulty in working through this enormous supply that is presenting itself more and more by the day, blending authentic stuff with second rate, untouched with cleverly done up resulting in a global art soup. I hope somebody will soon come up with some clever software to personalize my cup and garantee some qualitity before it is served.
Merray
  • Merray
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8 years ago
I´m working on it, Arb, give me few more days please. :)



www.artmarketspot.com 
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
I´ll give you weeks, far as I´m concerned...
Merray, are you the blondie in the thumbnail?? I always thought you was a bloke, but hell no [:D]
Merray
  • Merray
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8 years ago
´´Blondie´´ - is my wife. :)
She actually found this forum and created this username here years ago as well, that I´ve ´´hacked´´. It was back at those times when we had only one PC for the whole family. :)

www.artmarketspot.com 
Merray
  • Merray
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8 years ago
...as to the software, we´ve spent weeks on it already, so only days left till implementation.

www.artmarketspot.com 
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
Sorry for makin´ a pass at you Merray 🙂 Wish I had such a lovely wife...
Merray
  • Merray
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8 years ago
Arb, I hope you aren´t married yet, so your wife wouldn´t have to read this. ;)

www.artmarketspot.com 
Vietato
  • Vietato
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8 years ago
Where is that thumbnail anyway?

I have only seen a picture of Mr. Merray himself on his website.



Regards,

Vietato



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Merray
  • Merray
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8 years ago
She posted that very first job on the site that Ad took on. But since it was completed and paid for, it doesn´t show anymore on the front page, unless you select ´´All Jobs´´ on your dashboard. And you have to be loged in to see the dashboard. But here is the direct link:
http://www.artmarketspot.com/index.php/project/project/detailproject/3-help-to-identify-the-artist#.VcKZLPkkWUF 

www.artmarketspot.com 
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
Sorry for my language yesterday, Merray. I had been to a rather alcoholic gallery opening...

Adrian
8 years ago
back to fakes please :-)



here someone tries to sell two paintings by Alfred Fontville De Breanski (of course he couldnt read the signature ...):

http://www.ebay.de/itm/351471112677 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/351471117271 



Looks like oleos at first sight, but strangely the canvas was restored. What do you think?
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
quote:
[i]Looks like oleos at first sight, but strangely the canvas was restored. What do you think?


Stretchers without peg-holes, that can´t be stretched, are a strong indication for oleo´s to begin with. Then there is the typical rough surface where a smooth varnish would be expected. The detail images show spots of canvas where the paper is missing and a bit of paint was smeared on. What gives them away is the vagueness in the trees that comes with reproducing very delicate shades of green. The restaurations may well have been necessary, but may also have been executed to fake authenticity. The Breanski´s have been reproduced in bulk and their oleo´s abound. And remember that stamp! It won´t be last time you see it. That was never sharp and legible as it was not meant to be read...[}:)] Thanx Adrian!
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
Around 1900 The Hague had a thriving workshop where 17th Century landscapes, often barren and unromantic, were furnished with shepherdesses and the like. Some of these artists were stunningly good at painting like the old masters. It does not strike one as too odd, because our eyes are unconsciously used to seeing living creatures in an other 17th C. hand than the one that did the setting. Painters like Lingelbach did little more than add staffage to other artists´ work. One of the current dealers in The Hague infallably recognizes these more recent ´ameliorations´ and told me they have worked on oleo´s as well. I have never seen one of these, but I hope I will one day.
TLWilliams
8 years ago
I don´t know whether anyone followed it but (and I have to be careful what I say) a major American art gallery that dealt in prints was ´allegedly´ selling tons of forgeries. Several wealthy Americans, ´victims´ of this gallery took it to court. They lost.

So if you´re a ´victim of forgery´ and you end up bankrupt because you took the company that sold you ´potential fakes´ to court and lost, what can you do?

The main issue is these forgery rings are huge, cross border/continent organisations. The Scotland Yard art and antiques unit is tiny and in many instances can´t follow these scams up due to lack of man power and jurisdiction.
TLWilliams
8 years ago
Yes, the Knoedler case was shocking and shared much in common with the case I was hinting at with the substantial payments to ´authenticators´ ie putting the burdon on someone else, and since that third party merely offers an opinion, they jump through a very big loop hole.
arb
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arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
I would like anybody´s opinion on the 5 works by Isaac Israels that Hampel is going to auction today. This is big bucks. It is almost impossible that they would not have vetted them thorougly, yet I am completely convinced they are false, all 5 of them:



https://hampel-auctions.com/online-catalogue-search.html?a=102&q=isaac%20l.%20israels 
eytan
  • eytan
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8 years ago
I saw this only today (after the auction). To me the paintings seem well done. If they are fakes, there must be an interesting story there:

the five paintings are aquarel on paper, oil on canvas and oil on board. There seems to be an entire industry producing fake Isaac Israels paintings!







Eytan
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
Eytan, you´re so right! Some of it is produced in Romania an Bulgaria and sold in America and Israel. Two works by the same hand were proposed to me from Miami. These watercolors are cooky jar images, far too romantic and sweet for Isaac, they have practically no faces and the cheap, flat colours have different ingredients. The oil paintings just lack depth and accent. Besides, only one of these 5 comes with a provenance. And not a very convincing one at that. A work by Israels ought to have the written blessing of an RKD art historian or a Dutch expert dealer.
eytan
  • eytan
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8 years ago
arb: I am intrigued. I looked at several Isaac Israels watercolors sold in recent years by Christie´s Amsterdam and other reputable Dutch auction houses - in many of them the facial features are sketchy and caricature-like, but I definitely do not have your level of expertise. Another surprise to me was the very high prices his work is getting - I always admired his father and considered him a much deeper artist.

By the way I acquired recently a Josef Israels portrait - I do know who was the previous owner (a serious collector) and it has on the back a Christie´s stencil number, so I hope it is not a fake. Here is a link - what do you think about it? (I like it a lot)

http://www.tiroche.co.il/ItemPagePastResults.asp?id=52114&array_index=3&search_words=israels 



Thanks











Eytan
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
Eytan, I had noticed that lot when it was auctioned. It is a vibrant portrait, a girl I couldn´t handle [;)] But I had doubts. I have seen wild smears of paint in his work, but not that wild. And then there was the form of the head, more an Abel Pann type of woman. There certainly is Jozef Israels light, but the demoniccaly dark eyes seem too modern for Jozef. Take all that with a bit of salt: I was surprised to find he had done so many studies on board, so I´m not really a reliable source. The one person who is, may be contacted if you have a LinkedIn account: Dieuwertje Dekkers, the only living person who published widely on the subject. She does charge a fee, but one can always ask:

https://nl.linkedin.com/pub/dieuwertje-dekkers/57/63a/651 
eytan
  • eytan
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8 years ago
Thanks a lot! I should not have asked.... it came from a very well know collector´s estate, I asked the auction house to find out for me where and when he bought it, and then I will contact the expert you recommended. As I wrote, it has a Christie´s stencil number on the back, which in principle should make it possible to trace. I will work on it and let you know. By the way, the photo has gone through some serious processing and enhancements, the colors in the painting are much milder.



Thanks again







Eytan
eytan
  • eytan
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8 years ago
arb:



I did succeed to get the information from Christie´s! Here is what they wrote me:



This was in a sale on:

5th October 1979 at King Street London

Lot: 5

JOSEPH ISRAELS

A PEASANT WOMAN, head and shoulders

Signed – on panel

9 ¼ x 8 ¼ in. (23.4 x 21cm)

PROVENANCE: Mr. Moarburg

Sold for:

£600



Information on seller and buyer is not available till 2029.



but now I know that

a. it was indeed auctioned at Christie´s

b. it was identified and sold as a Joseph Israels painting



Of course it could still be a fake, but the probability for that has decreased somewhat, would you agree?



Best









Eytan
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
Very good news, a glatt kosher history, couldn´t be better! Congratulations! That they reveiled the name of the former buyer must have escaped Christie´s. Probably by accident? [}:)]



eytan
  • eytan
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8 years ago
Thanks! I do not think they revealed anything beyond what appears in the catalogue: many times a lot will state ´´provenance: ex Mr So-and-so collection´´. I will try to get a scan of the page from the catalogue. I was very pleasantly surprised by the prompt curteous and efficient response of Christie´s archives. I do not recall who on the forum recommended the article on ´´the back of a painting´´, but it was very useful for me.







Eytan
arb
  • arb
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8 years ago
We have an amusing cause célèbre in the Dutch art world going on that millions have seen: here a posh lady presents an early Karel Appel to our national version of the Antiques Road Show and the ´expert´ smoothly falls into the trap:





The morning after three veteran dealers rang the bell. Papers and competing TV channels were highly amused, but not completely certain. I had sent an email to the program while it was on air, as it is really the silliest fake Appel I saw in years. How can anybody be uncertain?
Merray
  • Merray
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8 years ago
Hi guys, it took me much longer than I initially though, I had to rebuild the site from the scratch in a different CMS after spotting a major systemic flaw and still working on it, but the major functions are done and running well. So here it is, happy to present my new project 🙂 :

http://finearthaven.com/ 



Please let me know what do you think about it, your feedback is important.

ps.

Here I describe what it is about:

http://www.artmarketspot.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=3&id=95&Itemid=146 



www.artmarketspot.com 
Merray
  • Merray
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8 years ago
Another thing I wanted to tell you, that I would be very happy to invite members of this forum that over the years have proven here their high level of expertise in art trade as moderators for the project. People like Vietato, Arb, Saitluc, Wasbach, TL Williams... perhaps some others (sorry if I´m forgetting someone at the moment).

If any of you guys have an interest in participating in this project from the early stages, please let me know and I would create moderators accounts for you with the back-end entrance.



www.artmarketspot.com 
cathammer
8 years ago
Hello,

Taking my first plunge from lurking to add a bit to the discussion of fakes, although I know little of art, especially compared to many on this forum. After doing just a bit of on-line research (including this forum) on Rembrandt etchings, the following struck even me as being particularly wrong, in so many ways, from the blatantly incorrect information to the absurd estimated price:

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/etching-after-rembrandt-christ-pontious-pilate-et-677-c-6804798af3 



http://www.invaluable.com/catalog/searchLots.cfm?scp=u&catalogRef=HY1GQUJDHA&shw=50&ord=0&img=0&olF=1&houseRef=&houseLetter=A&artistRef=&aID=0&areaID=&countryID=®ionID=&stateID=&fdt=&tdt=&fr=0&to=0&wa=REMBRANDT&wp=&wo=&nw=&upcoming=0&rp=&hi=&rem=FALSE&ns=0&isSC=0&row=1&isBIN= 



Makes one wonder how the seller has any hope to pull off such a blatant con, and if the offered prints are even less than real Durands...maybe just some heliotype or lithograph copies.
eytan
  • eytan
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8 years ago
A helpful rule of thumb: if a seller spells Pilatus´ name as Pontious, don´t buy.



Eytan
Vietato
  • Vietato
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8 years ago
Yes, cathammer, that´s just terrible. The Rembrandt-copy you linked to was sold for 425 $.



For those interested here is some information about the Durand-prints:

http://www.rembrandt-in-romania.ro/amand_durand_en.php 



Here is the next auction from ´´Art Legacy´´, all with hysterical estimates - and certificates! [;)]

http://www.invaluable.com/catalog/searchLots.cfm?scp=c&catalogRef=NTF0IBI2IT&row=1 



Regards,

Vietato





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Vietato
  • Vietato
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8 years ago
There´s yet another fake provider on Live Auctioneers - along with

Best Auction For You, Inc.

Buy Art Auctions, Inc.

Fine Art Online Auctions, LLC

namely

Art Everywhere Auctions Inc.



They all have the same scheme and are probably connected.



Isn´t this a lovely Otto Dix?

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/44225952_morte-1935-oil-on-paper-otto-dix?from=alert&utm_source=SavedAlert&utm_campaign=SearchAlert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=item 



And see how many exact duplicates he made (- attached for later use)

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/search?q=otto+dix&hasimage=true&by_date=2016-03-09T17%3A18%3A49.040Z 



According to correspondence with Live Auctioneers they will only remove auctions if experts on each case can determine that they are fakes.



´´Tom Wesselmann´´:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/44225942_mouth-no-6-oil-on-paper-tom-wesselmann?from=alert&utm_source=SavedAlert&utm_campaign=SearchAlert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=item 



A lot of them:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/search?q=wesselmann&hasimage=true&by_date=2016-03-09T17%3A37%3A00.599Z 



I know I could dig up a whole lot more …



Regards,

Vietato





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