jigsaw
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17 years ago
How do you know? On what authority do you make your claims? Or are you simply compelled by opinion, drifting away on some tangent? I did not ask for your wishful thinking. Thanks for your opinion, but no thanks!
jigsaw
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17 years ago
Can someone with true experience and knowledge help me out?
jigsaw
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17 years ago
If all these things you say concerning yourself were true, then why are you in this forum so frequently. I person of such merit should be busy on other things. But since there is no verifiable proof of your academics, I cannot accept any of the words you have conveyed. However, I´ll consider allowing you to give me another opinion later on. Right now I dont need self promoters I need expertise. Unless you are willing to be concrete and bring some substance to the matter, please leave empty, vain and useless opinions out the discussion. Im sure you understand, Thanks!
TLWilliams
17 years ago
I doubt it. Signature´s too neat. Subject and style too ´picturesque´ - unless it´s an early work. Where did it come from? Is that frame resin or composite?
TLWilliams
17 years ago
Well, apart from the two published articles I´ve written on German Expressionists, the exhibition which I´m curating on German Expressionism in London next year, having a masters degree in the History of Art, having completed a fully funded Scholarship at the National Gallery in London, reading for a Ph.D in Flemish Painting and working as a Curator whilst running an art company - absolutely nothing. Good luck, yeah? I refuse to help rude and ungrateful people like you.
jigsaw
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17 years ago
And again, I ask, can someone with true experience and knowledge help me out? Seriously...
jigsaw
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17 years ago
TLWilliams, I´m shocked! For a man made out of dust, you have a pretty strong boast!
jigsaw
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17 years ago
If one should ask for water, should He receive coffee? I came here seekng professional advice and all I´ve received is self promoting critics who cannot percieve beyond the veil of their own pride. Consider this and discard the pre-configured notion that your imaginary status is enough to sway the attentions of those who are seeking sincere and objectives opinions about their art. Consider this.



TLWilliams
17 years ago
What is your problem?

Here´s the schedule for the last conference I spoke at:

http://www.arthist.arts.gla.ac.uk/Temp%20files/NIRPSeminar%202007prog.pdf 

It´s true, I have better things to do than waste my time here, with people like you. Some people on this forum like Wasbach, Arb, LS and Rich are decent knowledgeable people whom I enjoy discussing art with.
wasbach
17 years ago
Dear jigsaw,

I fear you will get no more advice, if you treat people that way.

I thought, you wanted something!? TLWilliams is the one you need.

This is an art, not a kitsch forum, you should accept unpleasant statements.

Thank you.

Regards

Wasbach

wasbach
17 years ago
To use the picture you mentioned:

Sometimes, if you want something to drink, you have to accept coffee.

“Professional advice” does not mean that everything is explained to you very detailed.

Opinions are not only “sincere and objective”, if you like them. Rather the other way round.

Consider this.

Regards

Wasbach

jigsaw
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17 years ago
Is rain fall consistent with a cloudless sky? Is dry rivers consistent with a school of fish? Neither is the opinions of self confident critics consistent with truth and logic. The ground stricken with famine cannot bear fruit neither can the heart stricken with pride give an honest and objective answer. Kill the pride and arrogance that springs forth from your alleged success and accomplishments and then maybe you can be of genuine use to a person. As for me, I simply requested an opinion in an open art forum, but instead, received vain statements. As far a your statement about the coffee, it too is inconsistent. For coffee only serves to increase the thirst of a man who is in genuine need of water. Is this the philosophy of professionals? I think not. Consider your words.
jigsaw
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17 years ago
Suppose one should take a blue crayon and write upon a piece of paper, ´´this crayon is red´´, will the crayon change its color for the sake of the writing? Neither will the truth of the matter be altered and changed for the sake of your opinion. Adjust the angle of your perspective and consider the full spectrum of the issue at hand.
LSMorgan
17 years ago
It is positively amazing to me that you are actually giving TL a hard time.

Of all the people on this forum, he is probably the single most qualified of the lot, yet people who purchase $299 Picasso sketches on ebay always are mean to him because he isn´t afraid to step up and tell them the truth.

It´s OK that you asked him his qualifications. I did that once too. Once he gave them, that´s where you got completely out of line and, as a dear friend of mine likes to say, became ´´offensively defensive´´.

I´m sorry, but you are an idiot beyond repair if you say this...



quote:
How do you know? On what authority do you make your claims?


And then when he replies and outlines his qualifications, you retort with this.

quote:
and all I´ve received is self promoting critics who cannot percieve beyond the veil of their own pride.


Ya see, someone isn´t ´´self-promoting´´ when you ask them for their qualifications and they answer....

TL, continue to hold the line of truth. You are one of the biggest assets around here. Don´t take offense when some massively deluded buyer of unprovenanceed paintings with ´´exciting´´ signatures gets mad at you because you inform them that there really isn´t any pie in the sky.

LSMorgan
17 years ago
LOL @ pseudo profundity. People like you are caricatures of yourselves and the real beauty is, you don´t even know it.

Lets examine the dialog thus far. Shall we?



You asked an opinion.

The person who is easily the most qualified on this site replied and gave an answer you didn´t like.

You questioned his qualifications, thinking and maybe hoping that he was an unqualified blowhard and your dream (aka- delusion) could live on....

Oops!

Turns out that TL isn´t such a man. He´s the sort of person who is massively qualified to proffer precisely the opinions in which were the entire intent of this post. He is the sort of person who is highly educated and paid to give these opinions.

Your last few replies have been bizarre, out-there hypotheticals, random free-associations and questionable analogies that barely remain in the realm of sanity (yet I´m sure within the spectrum of your own mind, things are entirely different)

The real hilarity here is that he didn´t even entirely discount the painting. He left open the possibility that it might be the real deal, albeit an earlier work but you were so intent on finding someone to lend blind credence to your hopes that you jumped his **** without even comprehending what he was saying.

Seriously. People like you are so common in the arts (after all- right brainers can be a bit flakey) but nevertheless frustrating as hell to communicate with.



jigsaw
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17 years ago
Indeed one stumbles for failing to see. Therefore, see and you will cease from stumbling. The self evident truth is expressed in the fact that I have yet to receive a sound opinion of the work in question. It is obvious then that some men would rather support the supposed position of other men than function in the purpose for which this website was designed. Now I ´´see´´ why you fail to see. Consider...
jigsaw
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17 years ago
Can a man grip fluid with his bare hands? Will the water not slip through his hands the more he applies pressure? Neither can the simple mind grasp logic and reason. The more bias pressure you apply to the situation at hand the more likely the reality of it will slip out of your range of comprehension. Indeed a mere child could have answered the questions proposed above while comprehending the simplicity of them with no external assistance. It is shocking then that you would perceive them as being barely out of the realm of your own sanity. As far as I´m concerned, this dialogue between you and I is now closed.

And again, I ask, can someone with true experience and knowledge help me out? Seriously...

jigsaw
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17 years ago
Dear JillH2001,



The fresh wind of sincerity is as a cold glass of water on the hot summer day. I recognize with gratitude the nature, worth and significance of your posting. I will not say that my agreement is harmonious with every aspect of your statement, but it does lay the fundamental groundwork for progressive discussion which is the pre-requisite for fruitful dialogue. I am a normal consignor at Christies and am currently working with Sotheby’s for the auctioning of a Russian piece that I own. The purpose of my post was to expose the arrogance of men who suppose that their position grants them authority to exercise pride and conceit above other men. They theoretically suppose and imagine that their academics are the precondition that qualifies their groundless opinions to be exalted as fact. Even museum curators are wrong at times and must consider their susceptibility to incline towards error. A prideful man uses his academics as the basis on which he builds opinions, while the basis of an honest man is integrity whereby he uses his academics as his building material.



Respectfully,



Jigsaw

jillh2001
17 years ago
Dear Jigsaw,

You really need a better photo of the signature. Here´s what to do if you think it´s legit. Find the person who wrote the Catalog Raisonne for this artist, if there is one. Send him/her excellent photos of the work, from the front, the back and the signature. Be sure to capture the paint technique ( stroke) in your images. You can also examine the signature with your naked eye and a black light to check for variances.



For the rest of the people who rant and rave and have turned this forum into a running joke. You should be ashamed. There is no place for discussions about God here, or qualifications, boasts etc. If you are well-qualified and want to post all your credentials that´s fine. Personally, I can´t imagine doing that in an anonymous forum, especially as some of the folks here are wacky at best. Hello, it´s the internet. I´m glad some folks bring a Phd, etc to the forum but that does not make them experts on value, authentication etc. It just makes them very very knowledgeable in one or two areas. Since there are 30-50,000 listed artists, how can you know about everyone? Get off your high horse (and pulpit)!



Am I the only one who thinks discussions about politics belong at a backyard Barbeque and not in an art forum? What about taking your spiritual beliefs to church rather than ranting?



Let´s get back on track. It´s art, it´s visual, it´s about knowledge and RESEARCH. And we can help each other but not by delivering insults and boasts. For the rest, I´m really not sure why you are so angry. If someone doesn´t like your opinion or contribution let it go.



LSMorgan
17 years ago
Philosophical ramblings aside, I really fail to see this fundamental truism that is being ignored here.



LSMorgan
17 years ago
quote:
Originally posted by jigsaw


Can a man grip fluid with his bare hands? Will the water not slip through his hands the more he applies pressure? Neither can the simple mind grasp logic and reason. The more bias pressure you apply to the situation at hand the more likely the reality of it will slip out of your range of comprehension. Indeed a mere child could have answered the questions proposed above while comprehending the simplicity of them with no external assistance. It is shocking then that you would perceive them as being barely out of the realm of your own sanity. As far as I´m concerned, this dialogue between you and I is now closed.



And again, I ask, can someone with true experience and knowledge help me out? Seriously...








Hahahahahahaha [:D][:D][:D]

This has got to be a joke account.

It is just impossible that someone could actually be like this and not be some kind of satire.
formfinearts
17 years ago
´´If someone doesn´t like your opinion or contribution let it go´´ a quote from jillh2001 surely must be the turnover of a new leaf on jill´s part. I am sure that L. S. Morgan must have had a good laugh at the irony of that particular quote.
wasbach
17 years ago
Seriously...

Dear jigsaw, probably it was the mistake to take you seriously.

Not only mine perhaps.

What a pity.

Regards

Wasbach
wasbach
17 years ago
Yes, of course, you´re right, LSMorgan - it´s a satire attack.

Well done, jigsaw!

But I felt it: ´´it was the mistake to take you seriously.´´

Regards

Wasbach
formfinearts
17 years ago
If you are looking for ´´someone with true experience and knowledge to help you out ´´ take your artwork to have it physically examined by a local university art department. If however you are only interested in having this forum confirm your prejudices about the painting then you already have your answer and probably got more reasoned response than you otherwise seem to have deserved.
LSMorgan
17 years ago
quote:
Originally posted by jillh2001


LS Morgan your sofa speaks for itself. I had a great laugh when you posted your ´´book finds´´. It is exactly the taste I would expect in your ´´home.´´ What is funnier is your concerted attempt to tease me out to offer my qualifications. Only a fool would offer his qualifications via the internet for all to see. The frame may not be modern, but if you look back the rest was correct. By the way, why not post all photos of the rest of your art collection.



This forum has gone really downhill. Not worth following. What a bunch of pompous no-nothings.



My quote would be:

Some say it´s taste, I say it ain´t art baby!!






You don´t offer your qualifications because you have none, or, they are very, very weak.



You have attempted to create this bizarre ´´high road´´ where ones qualifications should be kept a secret, but in reality, there is absolutely no reason why someone who is genuinely qualified should be reticent to inform people why.

If you went to the website of an appraiser and they said ´´We´re sorry. We agree with JillH and think it´s crazy to give our qualifications over the internet´´ what would you think about them?

You would probably think about them what everyone else on this site already thinks about you.



You are a typical blow-hard know-nothing who has consistently proffered advice on this forum that is so genuinely bad and laughably incorrect that it borders on outright comedy. It would be one thing if you were hesitant to give out your qualifications but consistently gave good advice. Then, I guess people might think you were just a paranoid, but otherwise qualified. But when you refuse to give your qualifications and every time you say something, it´s wrong? It´s pretty obvious what we have here with you.



http://www.theoceangallery.com/vacation_rentals_rates.htm  .

I seriously doubt someone like yourself is in a financial strata to understand the components that are native to property rental, so I won´t bother to explain.)

jillh2001
17 years ago
LS Morgan your sofa speaks for itself. I had a great laugh when you posted your ´´book finds´´. It is exactly the taste I would expect in your ´´home.´´ What is funnier is your concerted attempt to tease me out to offer my qualifications. Only a fool would offer his qualifications via the internet for all to see. The frame may not be modern, but if you look back the rest was correct. By the way, why not post all photos of the rest of your art collection.



This forum has gone really downhill. Not worth following. What a bunch of pompous no-nothings.



My quote would be:

Some say it´s taste, I say it ain´t art baby!!
LSMorgan
17 years ago
quote:
Originally posted by jigsaw


Dear JillH2001,



The fresh wind of sincerity is as a cold glass of water on the hot summer day. I recognize with gratitude the nature, worth and significance of your posting. I will not say that my agreement is harmonious with every aspect of your statement, but it does lay the fundamental groundwork for progressive discussion which is the pre-requisite for fruitful dialogue. I am a normal consignor at Christies and am currently working with Sotheby’s for the auctioning of a Russian piece that I own. The purpose of my post was to expose the arrogance of men who suppose that their position grants them authority to exercise pride and conceit above other men. They theoretically suppose and imagine that their academics are the precondition that qualifies their groundless opinions to be exalted as fact. Even museum curators are wrong at times and must consider their susceptibility to incline towards error. A prideful man uses his academics as the basis on which he builds opinions, while the basis of an honest man is integrity whereby he uses his academics as his building material.



Respectfully,



Jigsaw








Oddly enough, you and I are in complete agreement here (although you say it in such a way that ensures your phraseology has enough pomp to project this bizarre illusion of eloquence which is really verbose, unnecessarily flowery and makes you look like an ass)



You really can´t give much credence to what Jill says, as she is PRECISELY the sort of person who has absolutely no qualifications, yet always tries to put forth some kind of ´´opinion´´ even when she is laughably wrong (see the quote in my sigline? That is one of her gems)



She ´´agreed´´ with you because I have wounded her pride in the past and she tends to pop up to take the opposite side of whatever side I take not on merit, but just to be disagreeable and contratian. If I said the sky is blue, chances are she would pop up to say it´s wrong.

Having her on your side here isn´t a ´´cool glass of anything on a hot day´´. It´s being in very poor company.



Anyway...

It is true that the arts are infested with people who use ´´opinion´´ and subjectivity as a surrogate for fact. Advances in science have blown a lot of ´´opinions´´ out of the water in recent years, when items certified by ´´experts´´ have been revealed as being fakes and conversely, items dismissed as ´´forgeries´´ have been proven to be authentic in the very ways that were previously cited for their dismissal.



The problem you are running in to here is that you ask people for their opinions, then when you get them, you ask for their qualifications and then when they tell you their qualifications (which is something Jill cannot provide) you attempt to lambaste them on this idiotic premise that they are being boastful. That is just so logically fallicious that you cannot be taken seriously.



Compound this by the way you communicate (which itself is so over-the-top that is MUST be satire) and people are just going to have a hard time taking you seriously... Or, maybe I should say ´´the way you communicate is like a long set of well painted female fingernails raking gracefully across a chalkboard... Yet does the grace and beauty of the movement negate the annoyance of the sound the nails ultimately make?´´



formfinearts
17 years ago
Jigsaw is certainly an apt pseudonym for the phrases and flourish of language that you piece together. Cut and paste from wherever but just as in any jigsaw puzzle without the context and wholeness of the image the idea is not fully formed until all the parts are together, making you

not altogether there, yet



Being mindful of the fact that though I have experience I lack your zeal and as L S Morgan is apt to say and I am in complete agreement with him on this, obviously the frame is modern.
TLWilliams
17 years ago
This is absolutely great comedy.



I´m sure jigsaw is planetpl or whatever their name was. Poor bugger wasting his/her money on complete rubbish, then insulting everyone when they say they´re not what they purport to be. There is absolutely no chance of this painting being by Corinth. For the primary reason that Corinth´s wife wrote the raisonne and included all the landscapes, having been with Corinth all the time during his Walchensee period (1919-). All the landscapes are also dated and signed with Corinth´s signature, not this counterfeiter´s signature. I´m not even going to mention the frame which appears to be resin...



Jill - firstly, know the facts of the argument before you poke your nose in. I did not bring politics or religion into forum discussion. I also did not ´boast´ - I was asked a question, and I replied. Every curator/valuer/professor etc worth his/her salt can be found on the internet. As for LS´s sofa - what the hell does that have to do with anything?? Pot calling the kettle black?



PS - it might be difficult for jigsaw to show the photo´s to Mrs Corinth, unless he has a good shovel?

PPS - If jigsaw got hit by a falling tree in the woods, would anyone care.....
jigsaw
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17 years ago
How much longer will the blind walk around with their eyes closed? Wandering the grounds of their towns in blind folds? Consequently, the eyes need light in order to see. Though the eyes may work, it is of no use and significance in complete darkness. Such are the repliers of this post. For you see with your intellect but remain in darkness without true sound and wholesome knowledge. You suppose that life is defined by your accomplishments, but the very life that you posses required no effort on your part attain. So in an attempt to ventilate your vain and purposeless notions, you have assumed the position of intellectual men in an effort to establish a foundationless platform to convey your foolishness. To a man in a bottomless pit, looking down to him feel as though he is high. In the same way you who have no foundation look down on others that you may feel high even though your intellectual fall is apparent. On the flip side if he looks up he recognizes the true magnitude of his fall and considers his own futility. Recognize that you are all mere men and cease from the foolish ramblings.

LSMorgan
17 years ago
Check out this great Klee original watercolor!



http://tinyurl.com/2vxuxb 



I am so excited I think I might buy it! After all, when will I ever have another chance to purchase an original Klee for a mere $240!



Would anyone like to give opinions?

PS- if you give me any opinions that say this isn´t really by Klee, you are as wrong! Wrong I say! And you are a braggart, a boaster and a blowhard! (Insert bizarre haiku here)
Cogswel_Cogs
17 years ago
Does anyone else feel that maybe Jigsaw and TL are one in the same.

You know split personality thingie.
jigsaw
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17 years ago
The erudite shall heir glory but ridicule shall be the poster of fools. The blast blows wherever it pleases. You hear its tone, but you cannot recount or impart where it is advance.
jigsaw
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jigsaw
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jigsaw
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17 years ago
Anomalous feast on your wealth and your travail enrich another´s house.
jigsaw
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17 years ago
Anomalous feast on your wealth and your travail enrich another´s house.
TLWilliams
17 years ago
This is surely the most entertaining of all the posts ever on this forum? Jigsaw I salute you!
TLWilliams
17 years ago
Unfortunately not. One can but dream however...
formfinearts
17 years ago
If Jigsaw is a ´´normal´´ consignor at Christies and Sotheby´s then that should be all the expertise that is necessary to verify the dubious Corinth or any other artwork that Jigsaw might come across .

formfinearts
17 years ago
Shall the airudite air,should the errudite err or the heirudite heir? Glory be to the poster of fools and the fool of posters whether it be me or thee.

Wherever the blast blows it´s pleasing tone you can or can´t recount recant or rant or count the rant of kant. Be sure you can kant or can your kant can´t you ?



With apologies to the Homonysts above you and those who are actually seeking information on art .



IS THIS PAINTING ORIGINAL?

At this point does it matter ?



formfinearts
17 years ago
Quote:

Originally posted by jigsaw


Anomalous feast on your wealth and your travail enrich another´s house.

[/quote



Surely you can come up with a better malediction than this, something a little less pedantic with a little more punch. I am sure you are capable of a real zinger for us.

Impasto
16 years ago
How did I miss this thread?



This is pure entertainment right here.



lol
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