formfinearts
16 years ago
Do you use a customs broker to facilitate your entries? I have found that most customs inspectors prefer it. That way someone else does all their work for them and they can just stamp it cleared.

The inspector only has to inspect the paperwork done by the broker, verifying that it has been done correctly and not have to bother with examining the actual item that may be more difficult to verify.

or...

Maybe they are waiting for this forum to pass final judgment on the artwork before they release it



Are you familiar with this Florida company?They might give you a free consultation and are a bit closer to home.



http://www.artexpertswebsite.com/pages/contact.html 
TLWilliams
16 years ago
I´m really sorry to tell you this but in my opinion that painting is not very old and has been made to look old. Firstly, it´s odd the canvas isn´t stretchered. Secondly the canvas has been stained to make it look old. Thirdly the seal is over the tape which is very odd. Is that paper tape or some kind fabric? Whatever it is it also has been stained to age. Lastly, the style of the painting is not right. I really hope you didn´t spend a lot on it and I am sorry to give you bad news. What is good though is the frame - the frame looks to be 18th century Oak and most probably originated in France.



Timothy Lawrence Williams MA (Hons)

Neil MacGregor Scholar

The National Gallery,

London
bodo
  • bodo
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16 years ago
Nothing wrong with the authenticity. It is 18th century, possibly even 17th. But is it art?
bodo
  • bodo
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16 years ago
Maybe in the U.S. of A it is. But in Europe we call it folklore.
jillh2001
16 years ago
Great to see some knowledgeable people on the forum. Dear LS Morgan, why don´t you stop being such a bore and pedantic drudge and realize this is not what you think it is? Take PT Barnum´s advice and realize there´s a sucker born every minute.



Good information on the seal. I have never seen a seal used to ´´age´´ a piece. But I´ll be on the lookout. I also learned something about the frame. Thanks to folks who are really knowledgeable. Seems there are some people who really know this area. This forum should not be used to berate others, are you listening LS Moron? It should be used to exchange knowledge.



I think folklore is a nice euphemism. I tell my clients when they have a piece like this, that piece is not worth appraising, let´s see what other treasures you may have.



I´ve seen some great European, folky pieces but fortunately none like this.

LSMorgan
  • LSMorgan
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16 years ago
Seeing as art is whatever one says it is, yes. This is art.
LSMorgan
  • LSMorgan
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16 years ago
quote:
Originally posted by jillh2001


This forum should not be used to berate others, are you listening LS Moron?






So in addition to being stupid, you´re a hypocrite too. [B)]



Nothing has been established yet, but we will as soon as it arrives.

Your assesments have been pathetically bad- like, laughably so (including in this very thread- i.e- the frame) and you have yet to cite a single bona-fide that might cause someone to listen to you, so why don´t you go back to your strip mall and continue on with your appraisals of Louis Icart and Bev Doolittle prints.



You were one of the original degenerates who slummed around this forum begging for people to send you money for a ´´certified appraisal´´. You are obviously terribly unqualified, but even worse, you´re possibly a scammer to boot.



We were all much better off when you weren´t posting here, and I think you were better off when you weren´t posting here as well. At least, you were spared the humiliation of spouting off horrendously incorrect assesments and being called down about them.



PS- Have you decided to tell us what your qualifications are? TL certainlly has. In addition to having qualifications to cite, his information is obviously rooted in a base of knowlege that is far more than your own (which border on being a running joke around these forums)



quote:
I think folklore is a nice euphemism.




Glad you like it. You will note it comes from someone who doesn´t really question the age of the piece.



I don´t even know why I bother replying to you. It´s like trying to reason with a retarded child.

LSMorgan
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16 years ago
quote:
Originally posted by bodo


Maybe in the U.S. of A it is. But in Europe we call it folklore.






Nah. I´ll delete that. I´ve been helped by some wonderful people on this forum who happen to come from Europe and I don´t want to make a blanket statement that might offend good people whom I really don´t intend to offend.



I will say this. With certain exceptions, the Germanic sensibility about the arts ´is what it is.´
bodo
  • bodo
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16 years ago
Of course you agree that the value of art does not depend on age, Chinaman. You sell brand new old masters like fortune cookies.
artexpress
16 years ago
Yes, i quite agree with you that the value of the fine art does not just refer to the age.There are lots of factors.The most important factor i think it is the connotation of painting tried to represent.:)



I am new to here.:).



quote:
Originally posted by jillh2001


Can you please post the upper left ( just the three faces) in greater detail also the pitcher on the table ( a detail). I´m looking for the manner of painting in the faces and the type of porcelain on the table ( Kangi other?) Most likely the porcelain is going to tell you roughly when the piece was painted. What about that musical instrument? Is it a mandolin? guitar? other? You can also tell from the instrument what century this is likely to be.

What I would start with are the figures, they don´t look right to me for the date you are seeking. It´s a rural painting ( that is most likely was done not in or near an urban center-where schools of art and artists would have shared manners and techniques like perspective, color, anatomy etc. I would say it is an untrained/ not formally trained artist. ( like our American folk art). The seal does look pretty good. You can find the motif for the center of the seal with research. Also the frame, can be easily changed but it a good beginning point and part of the overall history of the piece. I would definitely try to check the subjects manner of dress and go from there.

Just because the gallery/vendor you bought it from is reputable doe/does not mean it is what they say it is. I had a clients painting the other day. They purchased it as an oil on board and its an oil on canvas on board and effects the value to a LARGE degree. The gallery is honest, according to the person at Christies I spoke to ´´they are very reputable´´ They just made a mistake.

How does the back of this piece fit into the frame? What type of nails or adhesive do you have? Is the adhesive rabbit glue or something else. This will also give you info.

Hope you didn´t pay too much because the value is usually in the piece not the age. Still it is quaint.




saintluc
sansome
16 years ago
Thank you saintluc for bumping this!



I´ve just reread it all a year later and it made me smile, again, the second time around :-)



The question is - What was the conclusion, please, LS Morgan, on this painting when you finally got it out of customs? I am dying to know!
TLWilliams
16 years ago
LS Morgan hasn´t unfortunatly been on the board for a while, but if I remember correctly there was an issue with the shipping, the picture was returned and LS was refunded.
sansome
16 years ago
Thank you, TLW.



What a shame! We shall never know....
dcolosio
16 years ago
Man, I have never seen so many accusations and insults fly on this forum! How terrible.



LSMorgan
  • LSMorgan
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15 years ago
The package was ´´held´´ in customs for a very long time... As a result, this caused a riff between me and the seller- for reasons that in hindsight were understandable. She was out her goods, I was out money and the only people who knew anything were the people who were sitting on their butts at customs.



It arrived, but I had already been processed a refund for it, so back it went... Kind of a shame, but it was more of a headache than it was worth.
formfinearts
15 years ago
If you still have the photos of the work LSMorgan please repost them so that every on will know what all the fuss is about , jillh2001 can be clicked her pseudonym and read all of her topics.



The other interesting battle has unfortunately been deleted or maybe not, the other pseudonic with sardonic wit was nomadic