ivigo
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14 years ago
Ask there....this is the answer....

Kalimera kirie Christos,

Thanks for your e-mail. Unfortunately all we know about this book is what you can read on our web site. If you will Know some news about the possibility tha the autor can be Pablo Picasso please contact me

Best regards

And this is the editore Vallardi answer.....

Hello Mr Christos..

We are sorry. We dont¢have an Archive of so old Memorandum of agreement, so we can¢t find any information about the author.

Best regards,


ivigo
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14 years ago
Why you are so sure is not a Pablo Picasso book???


From my recently communication with on of the biggest auction house in the world i received the following mail...

Dear Mr. .....

Thank you for contacting ......... regarding the possible sale of your property. Our specialists are interested in learning more about it and invite you to send clearer images of the title page of the book for their review. To help us assist you in the most efficient way, we request that you attach your images to an email including item description and provenance........

And the last one.....

Dear Mr. ........

Thank you for contacting ........ regarding the possible sale of your property. Our specialists have carefully reviewed the information you kindly sent to us and have requested that I share with you their response. Unfortunately, based on the information provided, your property does not appear to fall into a property category or value level that ........ currently handles for sale. For that reason, our specialists are not able to suggest an estimate or provide other information.

wasbach
14 years ago
It surely is not Pablo Picasso.

Ask here:

http://www.museoitalianoghisa.org/documenti/elenco-cataloghi-IT.pdf 

They at least can tell you the real first name of your ´´Picasso´´.

Regards

Wasbach
ivigo
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14 years ago
Yes....why not???

Picasso used to paint lots of things.

One of his mother name was Lopez...or maybe the (L) probably was a mistake.



Hi Wasbach...

No it doesn´t exist the edition year in the book or any other element inside.

Regards,

Chris

P.S...look the fish in the foto

and the other foto

ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi bluemlein...

I´m not supporting and being so absolute about the authors name ,was Pablo Picasso.

But i couldn´t find any more informations about it, or information about happening by chance from other possible author.

We just have a conversation for all the probabilities that exist and about the value of the book , which function the contents .

I look the book very well .....(me and the Italian museum people ) but don´t have anything else.

The bottom left text on the illustrated pages write ...( Diritti riservati-rights reserved )

I see many italian names with the ´´ L´´ before the Picasso but no one the paint or design artist.

Best regards

Chris



Hi tom0887...

Thanks for the search ...but the book possible published between 1900-1940

Regards

Chris
tom0887
14 years ago
bluemlein
14 years ago
chris

please look at the very beginning and the very back of the book for a block of text, a colophon, which will tell you not just the publisher´s name but a date, and possibly some other information. also, please also take a good, clear, large photo of the bottom left text on the illustrated pages and post it.

beyond that, it is clearly a book about metalwork, including stained glass, which is scarce - if not nearly extinct - in its own right. get a couple of sheets of acid free tissue paper and wrap the book in it.

as for the name Picasso, it is not owned by pablo ruiz or his descendants. there are, for example, over 400 picassos in the italian white pages, of which twenty are ´´L´´ - luigi, luciano, etc. so it is entirely likely that a blacksmith named luigi, or lombardo, or luciano picasso produced one book.
Vietato
14 years ago
Maybe Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santísima Trinidad Mártir Patricio Ruiz y Picasso decided to call himself just L. in his little extra job doing designs for garden fences and doors.

Regards,

Vietato



____________________

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wasbach
14 years ago
Hi Mr. Tsonias,

no one´s life has been plumbed like Pablo Picasso´s life.

It´s impossible, that this would have rested a secret up to today, sorry.

Regards

Wasbach

PS.: Isn´t there a year of printing in the book?

ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi....

Two days search ...many and many hours..for the mystery Italian Picasso....but nothing....

My eyes see bird´s and star´s.....

At least the book worth something after all the job(search) I´ve done.

Regards

Chris

P.S....Maybe ....(ha..ha...) Picasso essays print with different name for confuse us......( i hope for that)

ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi bluemlein....



I search for metalworker, ironworker,blacksmith, fabricated , painter and many other similar job....but ...L.PICASSO ....is a chost...

Open the earth and swallow it......

This ....( L )....

Regards

Chris
ivigo
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14 years ago


Çi ....

I believe you mean these words ( Diritti riservati-rights reserved to Picasso )

Ok....not a essays print.....



Thanks

Chris
bluemlein
14 years ago
what does it say at the bottom left corner(s) of the page(s)
cassandra
14 years ago
[cite]tom0887

. . .

this lady could be the mysterious L. Picasso[/cite]

Clearly this book is pre-World War Two and most likely from the 1920s or earlier. ´´Loulou Picasso´´ is a contemporary artist.



Chris: I would, if I were you, forget about the ´´possibility´´ of ´´L. Picasso´´ being the egocentric Pablo. Picasso was so egotistical that the entire universe revolved around him (and one was ejected from the circle if one disagreed). Surely you do not think that he would have condoned publication of a book by ´´L.´´ - not as much as a first name!

And please consider the possibility of Pablo engaging in the description of rather mundane and unimaginative iron works for bourgeois gardens. I, for one, must scotch that idea definitively. Take any image from that book and compare it to any black-and-white image of Pablo´s. You should notice immediately the vast gulf that separates the two, artistically.
ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi cassandra..

Your idea is great...but we have to compare same similar Picasso´s work .....

In 1917 ....similar year with the book....the Picasso designed and drawined theater seats....

Where are these work´s to compare ?????
TLWilliams
14 years ago
http://opac.sbn.it/opacsbn/opaclib?db=iccu&select_db=iccu&nentries=1&from=1&searchForm=opac/iccu/error.jsp&resultForward=opac/iccu/full.jsp&do=search_show_cmd&rpnlabel=+Tutti+i+campi+%3D+il+fabbro+moderno+&rpnquery=%40attrset+bib-1++%40attr+1%3D1016+%40attr+4%3D2+%22fabbro+moderno%22&totalResult=16&fname=none&brief=brief 

Ask the Biblioteca nazionale centrale di Roma seeing as they appear to have a copy..... (or any other copyright library in Italy)

Forget Pablo, please!



www.pietafineart.com

Old Masters, New Eyes

Fine Art Gallery, Brighton Museum & Art Gallery

11 July 2007 - 10 February 2008

http://www.virtualmuseum.info/press/103.asp 

bluemlein
14 years ago
ivigo

if any of those librarians even thought there was a possibility the picasso might have been the author, don´t you think someone would have written a monograph on it by now? please put the idea to bed. i´m not saying any more on the subject.
ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi bluemlein...


you´re idea is perfect.

I do not know if it will really take but sent a message with your idea.

Thanks

Chris
ivigo
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14 years ago
Hello bluemlein



I am sorry but i am afraid i didnt understant what exactly you say - you meening.

My L.PICASSO and PICASSO ,L. is the same man with the first name GIORGIO or are they two different persons????

Best regards

and thanks

Chris
bluemlein
14 years ago
ivigo:

i now have heard from Dott.(Doctor) Elisa Zuri of Firenzelibri S.r.l.

´´L. refers to the previous surname. Picasso´s name is Giorgio. He didn´t write Il fabbro moderno. I´m sorry.

Many thanks for your request.´´

i take it that Giorgio Picasso actually was involved with the graphics.

bluemlein
14 years ago
chris, this picasso´s name is giorgio
ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi....

From the moment where they say that it did not write the book IL FABBRO MODERNO then it is different individuals.

Âefore many days I have sent email and asked information specifically for the writer, however still they have not answered yet.

Chris

ivigo
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14 years ago
Çé...


Unfortunately again the search they is without result.

The L.PICASSO Remains a ghost.


Dear Mr. Christos

you will recieve an extimates for the digital reproduction of the two

book of L. Picasso, Mobili antichi. We don´t have in our library the

other book request Il fabbro moderno. We also don´t have bibliographical

notices about the author L. Picasso.

Best regards

Gian Luca Corradi

Ufficio Informazioni Bibliografiche

Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Firenze

Any new idea and help are welcoming.

Thanks

Chris

ivigo
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14 years ago


Hi...



Finally we did not find to exist somebody with the initial L.

In that case there is a possibility the book author of that book to be the Pablo Picasso.

As much as you believe that work(book) does not belong to Pablo Picasso,

I believe you can´not proove that it doesn´t belong to him through the moment there isn´t any sourse to provide evidence from the opposite.

We have 1or 2 books with the name Picasso L, however we do not have nothing for the person with the name L....NOTHING.

What they have to say to us the experts about this resault???

Is it P.Picasso? #8230;. Isn´t it P.Picasso?

And don´t tell me that, PIcasso didn´t paint something like that , because he paint and do many things in his life.

The letter (L) in Italy is the first letter of the word (Work)=Lavoro

Thanks anyway.....

Chris

ivigo
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14 years ago


hi...

Waiting response to my questions from

Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Firenze ,

I thought to ask you a question to a query raised in the Italian and wait for your answer.



In this point ,it seems to me a kind of strange to exsist one or two books

with the same author and copys in Greece and Italy and do not

exist ,any information and specific in Italy because the book publiced in

Italy and the author also likely to be Italians.


What person (author) is not well known will be signed only with a L. and no other information ?????


Use the name of Picasso to be known, without some other purpose ???

Trying to get a copy of the book in the library have to be able to collect data.

If someone can help on this ....

Also if someone can help telling me what are the steps to be followed in my attempt to get an edge ...

Those from the moment....

thanks Chris
ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi...

I know in my problem with the book , the solution will propably given with the contact-

and ´´with answer from Mrs Maya Picasso ´´ but I don¢t know how to get in touch.





I hope to help me someone.

Chris
jesj1852
14 years ago
Hi Chris,

look, try this bookseller (ask if he can email you pictures of his book or more information that you can double check with yours for instance).

The book he has for sale may be of a different edition of yours. I too don´t think Pablo Picasso was the illustrator for this book, but it pays to follow all the leads you might get.Meanwhile look after your book.The book is with you. So don´t be in a hurry to find a final answer for your query at once. Take it easy.

-The add is in Italian, and this is the translation-

´´the book is ´´Il Fabbro moderno´´ (Lavagnola s.d. Turin. 250 new models of ironwork for buildings. Doors, gates, railings, stairs, gates, balconies, ecc.3 Edition. In-8 ° (cm. 24.4 x17, 2), pp. 158, (1) Fully illustrated with drawings. Br-ed. ill. Shadows and light fines for couples., Excellent interior. Bookseller Inventory # NCF036VI28)´´ and the link is

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=il+fabbro+moderno&x=15&y=3 

ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi ....

Hi jesj1852

I have looked and this and I sent and email with my book ,

but there is no new information.

This book that you think we can deal and be related to content with my own book, but is unrelated.

After consulting a second contact with the library in Italy received again the same answer.



<<,Dear Mr. Tsonias

sorry for the delay. We can only send you the extimate for the digital

reproduction of the book Mobili moderni. We don´t have any other

information.

Best regards

Gian Luca Corradi

Ufficio Informazioni Bibliografiche

Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Firenze>>

We have an Italian (L. Picasso), who even in Italy

nobody knows.

But they have books in a museum and a large library.

Very strange.

And the book and the author is not too old.

I will continue and I hope some people to help.

I am open to any cooperation.

Best regards

Chris

ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi VietatoIf you noticed above I put 2 answers from the specific library and there I was told never to do something like that.If you believe it is right that your answer to put above ... Jack and the information to found about the Giorgio L. Picasso. (You can do it??)If you notice says exactly ...´´L. refers to the previous surname. Picasso´s name is Giorgio. He didn´t write Il fabbro moderno. Me, I believe it gave too little attention to something that is very important for art.I am sure, anywone who had the book would say the same like me.Who is not interested this issue, simply skips.Best regardsChris
Vietato
14 years ago
ivigo,

Earlier in this thread you were given information from a librarian of the Firenze library, that the author´s first name is Giorgio and L. his middle initial (that´s how I interpret the answer):

quote:
Originally posted by bluemlein


ivigo:

i now have heard from Dott.(Doctor) Elisa Zuri of Firenzelibri S.r.l.

´´L. refers to the previous surname. Picasso´s name is Giorgio. He didn´t write Il fabbro moderno. I´m sorry.

Many thanks for your request.´´

i take it that Giorgio Picasso actually was involved with the graphics.




Why don´t you accept that answer?

I, for one, think that we have gone far enough on this matter, which hasn´t really to do with art.



Regards,

Vietato

____________________

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ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi...

With the latest datum and elements i found (from publisher,museum,libriary,collecters,forum,e.c.t) the result are these.

At the 90% i believe there is no existing person with the name L.Picasso.

( If you see carefully at the library of Florence ,before and after from the author Picasso L. all the other authors and writters with the same last name (PICASSO) they have the first name fullwrited and not with just the one and only letter.)

Exept another one which is probably the museum mistake ,because

not contain an element of any individual person.

See the link.

http://opac.bncf.firenze.sbn.it/opac/controller.jsp?action=listaautore_browse&browse_offs=651842 


Certainly, this conclusion does not mean that, the L. Picasso is a P.Picasso.

We need to gather information that could lead even indirectly to such a this conclusion.


But first and the key is to prove 100% that there is no real person named L.Picasso .


The theme will follow, but I see NO help.

Chris

ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi wasbach.


I mean, the author of my book L. Picasso and the library Picasso L. in Florence there is a NOT a real person.

Not at least with this letter L in first name.

Yes....They are have many persons with the name ´´L. Picasso´´ in Italy

but no one who wrote any of these books and anyone who has something to do with the topic of books ,or painter ,deginer,metalworker or,or,or.

Best regards

Chris

wasbach
14 years ago
quote:
At the 90% i believe there is no existing person with the name L.Picasso.




What do you mean by that? Your author ´´L. Picasso´´ with that name as a real person? Or what else?

There were and are many persons with the name ´´L. Picasso´´ in Italy.

Regards

Wasbach
ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi...

In addition to the to see if the book belonged to someone other than the P. Picasso, need to find some evidence in paintings that resemble the technique of P. Picasso.

The agendas of the book is very different from the works of Picasso, but certainly some common elements exist. (Shadows, plants, fish etc.)

It may not be exactly 100% the same but this has to do with the color reproduction and the issue of the project.

I put a page from the book and want to pay attention to plants.

I put also a Link to one of Picasso´s work did the same period about the book, when he was in Rome.

http://picasso.shsu.edu/index.php?view=zoom&img=opp17-010&year=1917 


I do not know whether to get it right the Link, but has ZOOM to see details.

Look at the plants is at the bottom of the painting.

Of course there are and the

other elements which are about the age of the book.

Thanks

Chris.

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ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi....

I put a Link to a work by Picasso that looks like the book.

This means that we could do something similar with the content of the book.

http://picasso.shsu.edu/index.php?view=ArtworkInfo&OPPID=OPP.14:326 

Looking for the elements from the works of Picasso that exist in the book, I found this.

At the work of Picasso in the Link that I put, have a look at the figures, down to the middle and the bottom right.

See and the attachment photo.

How closely resembles.

http://picasso.shsu.edu/index.php?view=zoom&img=opp01-289&year=1901 

Best regards

Chris

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ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi again.

Seeing the works of Picasso, has noticed that, too many projects-works on musical subjects and musical instruments.

It is one of the favorite subject .

And I would ask, how many possibilitys they have, someone else with name Picasso ,in a book with 24 paintings-sketches and ironwork subjects, one of this subject to be directly related to music.HOW???

The stave .... an ARPA ... and a guitar in the style of Picasso.

Among the works of Picasso, I found this .....see the link.http://picasso.shsu.edu/index.php?view=zoom&img=opp14-236&year=1914 at the same period with the book.

Look at the attached photos ,at the point where i have marked.Is the same motive, and 3 times in the book and 3 in the painting with the same details on points.

It is a great chance to use it ,with a both of 2 Picassos.

Best regards to all.

Chris

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ivigo
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14 years ago
Hi....pfbnantes


Thank you for your interest .... but these are the first ones I checked ... and I sent email ... more than once.

Some of the reply is above.

The photo of the cover is from the museum in Italy .... courtesy of Mr Lorenzo, beacause my book was without a cover.

I looked much more than we think.

Of course if he had been even one element that the writers of the book L.Picasso is real person, this whole debate would have stopped.

Contrast, unable to find data for the book and the writers, is the growing the mystery.

The more looking for commonality between projects by Picasso and the book, the issue becomes increasingly complex.



Continues to offer my cooperation to which people believe it can help.

Regards

Chris

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ivigo
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14 years ago
Hello again...

As you will see in the attached photo ....

I have marked with a blue ,a design decor, which Picasso uses too many times and especially in his works in 1914.

You can view any of these in the following 2 Link to put it.

I have only a total count for 1914 approximately 25 projects.

http://picasso.shsu.edu/index.php?view=zoom&img=opp14-169&year=1914 

http://picasso.shsu.edu/index.php?view=ArtworkInfo&OPPID=OPP.14:276 

Another design decor used by Picasso and I have marked in red in the same photo, I have put on Link again ..... but there is too many of this in Picasso works.

http://picasso.shsu.edu/index.php?view=ArtworkInfo&OPPID=OPP.14:321 

The design decor that I have marked in yellow, in the same photo again, I think is the most important because in the book used in many projects in different variations.

If i found in various and design forms the same in P. Picasso works.... then along with the music theme of the book there will be the major elements that the writers of the book are the same person.

Thanks all

Best regards

Chris

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pfbnantes
14 years ago
catalogo completo. L. Picasso. Il Fabbro Moderno. Antonio Vallardi. Roma Milano. Napoli. 25 manuale completo. Disegni Industriali. A. Vallardi. Milano ...

www.museoitalianoghisa.org/.../elenco-cataloghi-IT.pdf

very simple ...google.it ....you put the name of yr book and author and at the first page you can see that this book is in the catalogue pdf with the address above ... so to close this obessionnal debate with pablo Picasso your book is already known and referenced and has of course nothing to do with pablo Picasso
pfbnantes
14 years ago
for information the editor still exists :

Vallardi Editore - Via Belfiore 5 - 20145 Milano tel. +39 02 43811650-fax. 02 436923 - email info@vallardi.it -
ivigo
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14 years ago
Hello again....

I read, but if you do not have the knowledge , avoid ....to write.

I should mention that, I was not able to find something more about the book.

So I decided that, because the whole thing goes beyond my capabilities, and several other people, including specialists in art, to sell the book to auction in ebay.

Of course the price will be high enough.



So many are sold on ebay and other auctions, which is false and fake.

The book is at least not false.

Ultimately, what we had, what we lost.

Thank you all.

Regards

Chris

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ivigo
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13 years ago
Hello

Someone sent me the email below ....

<<For your information . His full name was Luigi Mario Ernesto Picasso. No relation to Pablo.

Good Luck...>>

I started searching ..... but failed to find anything yet ...

If someone find something .... please write .
Thanks Chris



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